this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2024
843 points (98.1% liked)

Political Memes

5599 readers
2488 users here now

Welcome to politcal memes!

These are our rules:

Be civilJokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.

No misinformationDon’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

Posts should be memesRandom pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.

No bots, spam or self-promotionFollow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 80 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Jokes aside, I think the correct one should be "binaria" because it's "persona no-binaria", where "persona" being a female-gendered word still includes everybody (persono doesn't even exist).

[–] [email protected] 36 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Really, if you replace "gender of the person" to "gender of the noun", ChatGPT is correct.

It's people who can be little more picky about pronouns and stuff

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Precisely. It is “el género no binario” or “la persona no binaria”. It has nothing to do with the person, just the nouns. As “binario/a” is an adjective, it has no gender on its own.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)

This legitimately trips up learners. How if the noun is female, it's correct to use feminine articles/pronouns/etc regardless of the person's gender, even if you know they're male. (or vice-versa).

That and plurals defaulting to male.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Just be careful, because the person can be the noun, then the adjective takes on the person's desired gender.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

plurals defaulting to male.

Except when referring to a group of women. Like “Dos profesoras”

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

It might be, you know, hear me out, that "grammatical gender" is a historical misnomer caused by linguistics initially practically only looking at Indo-European languages, which tend to have three noun classes with the word for "woman", "man", and "thing" all being in a different category so they became known as feminine, masculine, and neuter, with words assigned to them pseudo-randomly via phonetics. But really noun classes are a much more general thing, Bantu languages have up to 20. Persons, fruits, plants, locations, such things.

At least in Indo-European languages it's mostly about ease of reference: "I see a cup and a table. She is broken". Assuming that cup is female and table male (as in German) that is a very clear and concise statement.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

As someone currently learning, this is really useful to know

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

And if the noun is a person's name? Then how do you determine whether to use the masculine or feminine version of non-binary?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

The current proposal is to use an “e” ending. “mi amigue Charlie es no binarie”.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I think the default or mixed gender plural is the masculine io ending. Them's the rules of Spanish, as I was taught.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

it's incredible that you can frequently make chatgpt correct by changing some of the words to make it correct.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Native speaker here and no, that wouldn't be correct as a general rule. The most typical would be talking about or someone else like "yo soy no binario/a" and "yo" would be a he or a she depending on who is saying that. If you're talking about someone else it's "el/ella es no binario/a" for example.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

The point of being non-binary, though, is that they are neither "he" nor "she". Hence the post.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

On one hand, you're right. On the other, Spanish does not work like that. There's no gender neutral term for people.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Spanish always knows

El es no binario

Ella es no binaria

You see, easy peasy

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Also a native speaker here. You can also just not specify "el/Ella" because the context isn't relevant. I.e. "es no binaria". You can also just pluralize the person to get around gendered wording, I.e. "ya llegaron" for "they have arrived" rather than "el/Ella ya llego" for he/she has arrived, but this is informal and may sound odd to someone of a different dialect from me, but I think this should at least be intelligible to Latin american Spanish dialects

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Except that in spanish we don't have a gender neutral term so you either explicitly or implicitly have to say el/ella. But yeah, in hindsight it does make sense (semantically) to say "binaria" as if you were referring to them as "personA"

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

Not only informal but a bit disrespectful, by saying ya llegaron to one person, it's like adding disdain to them.

It's easier to say llegó + nombre de la persona

ie: llegó Juana, llegó Pedro

And so on

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Persona is bueno. Can't get more neutral than that