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More than 300 Egyptians die from heat during Hajj pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia, diplomats say (www.cbsnews.com)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Such senseless loss of life in the name of religion. Many hundreds or thousands of people die each year doing the pilgrimage, often times from crowd crushes, literally getting squished to death because there are so many people, or just exhaustion.

There are only a few short video clips on YouTube of the massive crowds and it is sort of unnerving seeing that many people in a moving crowd. Super weird what religion makes people do.

There is also this weird video which talks about how they plan to revolutionize the hajj to make it safer and accessible to more people - using technology in a weird blend of old world meets new.

I do hope they find a way to make it safer because people will never stop doing it, but the whole concept just seems absurd to me.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Such senseless loss of life in the name of religion.

If they'd died in the Saudi heat to a secular activity - at an F1 race event or inside a poorly A/C'd movie theater or trapped on an overheated bus - would that have been better?

There is also this weird video which talks about how they plan to revolutionize the hajj to make it safer and accessible to more people - using technology in a weird blend of old world meets new.

So much of the modern Saudi state sees the Hajj as little more than a massive tourist attraction. They're heavily invested in Disney-fying the experience, such that the maximal number of high-paying visitors can slide through the building frictionlessly.

Which is a shame, because the Hajj as a cultural event was originally intended as this class-agnostic unifying practice social event. You aren't supposed to visit these holy sites encapsulated into these exclusive expensive little bubbles. You're intended to mingle with people from the rest of the world and revel in a certain shared experience common to the faith the world over.

What we're seeing isn't some toxic religious ideology that Saudi administrators need to cleanse for mass consumption. Instead, we're seeing a commercialization and stratification of ideology, by which elites get a bespoke Hajj experience and Saudi officials get to operate as gatekeepers of tradition at some astronomical markup.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Such senseless loss of life in the name of religion.

If they'd died in the Saudi heat to a secular activity - at an F1 race event or inside a poorly A/C'd movie theater or trapped on an overheated bus - would that have been better?

Well I think religion is one of the few things you can get enough uneducated/dedicated people to die in the hundreds from heat stroke without people being like"I should probably leave"

All the examples you gave, of course except being trapped on a bus, people would realize there is a serious issue and start leaving once the first handful of people died.

"I'm not leaving the theater till I see the end of Iron man 2, I don't care that half the theaters dead and I'm next!"

EDIT

the Hajj as a cultural event was originally intended as this class-agnostic unifying practice social event.

lol, weren't women not allowed to go alone until recently or still?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If they'd died in the Saudi heat to a secular activity - at an F1 race event or inside a poorly A/C'd movie theater or trapped on an overheated bus - would that have been better?

What a ridiculous statement. No it wouldn’t be better, but when was the last time you heard of nearly a thousand people dying at an F1 race event, or inside a movie theatre due to lack of AC? If that were happening multiple times per year we would shut down F1 /movie theaters in a heartbeat.

Fact is that the Hajj claims thousands of lives every year, all in the name of religion.

Which is a shame, because the Hajj as a cultural event was originally intended as this class-agnostic unifying practice social event. You aren't supposed to visit these holy sites encapsulated into these exclusive expensive little bubbles. You're intended to mingle with people from the rest of the world and revel in a certain shared experience common to the faith the world over.

Yea as long as you aren’t a woman.

Don’t be surprised that people are using religion to grift the gullible and exploit the poor - that’s what religion is best at.

The Saudi government has an ethical responsibility to mitigate the risks. It’s not like this was some freak accident. This was entirely predictable and this will defiantly continue to happen until protections are put into place.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

when was the last time you heard of nearly a thousand people dying at an F1 race event, or inside a movie theatre due to lack of AC?

The Qatar World Cup killed a minimum of 400-500 project workers during construction.

If that were happening multiple times per year we would shut down F1 /movie theaters in a heartbeat

I wish that were true. But we've got a history of being extremely callous with athletes and spectators alike.

The Saudi government has an ethical responsibility to mitigate the risks.

I couldn't agree more. Shane they're cheap ass fucks

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

It’s ironic that you cite a country where the government and ruling family are linked inextricably to Islam, but I digress.

I wish that were true. But we've got a history of being extremely callous with athletes and spectators alike.

Name any other ongoing event that kills thousands of people every single year like clockwork.

Not trying to argue or anything… I just think that Islam is a foolish religion in the same way that Muslims might think that Mormonism is a foolish religion.

Mormonism is stupid, but if they had an event that killed thousands of people from Utah every year I would like to think that at least OSHA would step in or something.