this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2024
117 points (77.5% liked)

Ask Lemmy

25987 readers
1632 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Clarification Edit: for people who speak English natively and are learning a second language

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Learning a second language AND professionally teaching English to speakers of said language. English is not broken. English is actually much better than many alternatives. We don’t need to worry about noun gender. We don’t have to worry about tones. We have precise ways to indicate number and time. Formality levels are not baked into word construction. The pronunciation of words can generally be inferred from the spelling, despite learning this skill being a little complicated— but that complicated nature even has its usefulness.

We rag on English, but it is by far not the worse out there, not even close. It’s just contempt for the familiar.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The pronunciation of words can generally be inferred from the spelling

Definitely NOT. English is among the worst languages in that regard.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This definitely.

Exceptions on exceptions on exceptions, on top of grammar rules that vary based on what language the word you're using was originally from, except even then you can't know because it can be a word came to English from French even though it's originally Latin and then the way the French pronounced it carries over to the English.

As someone who's native language is Finnish and you literally know how a word is pronounced when you see it. If you know how to use the phonetic alphabet, then you basically know how to pronounce Finnish. Compare English words and their IPA to Finnish words and their IPA:

hevonen = [ˈheʋonen], hernekeitto = [ˈherneˌkːei̯tːo]

VS English

'geography' = ʤɔ́grəfɪj, explanation = ek.spləˈneɪ.ʃən/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Finnish

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chaos

Dearest creature in Creation, Studying English pronunciation,

I will teach you in my verse Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse. It will keep you, Susy, busy, Make your head with heat grow dizzy;

Tear in eye your dress you'll tear. So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer,

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You know the fun thing about "The Chaos"? It was written by someone who had English as a second language. Most native speakers simply don't get how chaotic their language is.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

This I can fully believe.

Here's Lindybeige, a native speaker, talking about the extra R-sounds (between a word which ends in a vowel and another which begins with one) and why Brits don't hear them

And here's Dr Geoff Lindsey's channel, excellent videos about the English language. (And in regards to being deaf to features of one's own language, it took a native speaking English professor for me to realise just how much vocal fry there is in my native language, Finnish.)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

As a native German speaker, I really dislike the formality levels and hope someday everyone uses the informal level. In a big company it's really annoying to start with the formal level and then awkwardly switching to informal level when contacting someone for the first time.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

It seems to me that you’re making a strange argument throwing bugs and features into the same pot. The fact that other languages have different complexities does not make one language more or less broken.