this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2022
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Україна | Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Except nobody is removing any agency from the Ukrainian people here. You're just stating a lie to create a false narrative that all of Ukraine was united behind your nationalist movement. Nobody is debating who the aggressor here is either. That's another rhetorical trick you like to use to distract from the actual point being made which is that the war could have been avoided.
One thing we can agree on is that the war will indeed end when Russia decides and it will end on Russian terms because NATO is now very clearly tapped out in its support for Ukraine. The NATO summit made it very clear that Ukraine isn't going to be part of NATO any time soon, and that there won't be any better guarantees than the ones Ukraine is getting now. As Petr Pavel openly said, Ukraine's got six months left.
You can keep calling me names all you like, but sooner or later you're going to have to start engaging with reality that the west used Ukraine to try and weaken Russia, and now that it's no longer able to do that the west will discard Ukraine like a used condom. This is the fate of every western proxy to date, and if you think the fate of Ukraine is going to be any different what else is there to say to you.
75% is a pretty staggering majority I'd say.
Dude you keep saying the same shit. No kidding that the US is using Ukraine, currently. I wish the US wasn't involved at all but here we are. Caught between an arms dealer and a madman.
So, on some level you do understand that you're getting used, and yet you still have some delusions that Ukraine will benefit from aligning with the west in the end. Amazing stuff there.
Meanwhile, that 75% of yours isn't exactly evenly distributed is it. Let's just look at the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
If Ukraine was united the way you pretend it is, then there wouldn't have been any civil war after maidan in the first place for Russia to exploit.
Let's do 2019.
which I would post an image here but looks like my instances image upload is fubar again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election#/media/File:2019_Ukrainian_presidential_election,_round_2.svg
Literally the further east you go the more people voted for Zelenskyy...
Uh yeah, people preferred Zelensky to Poroshenko, no shit! The further east you go the more people voted for this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/20/ukraines-leader-stood-on-platform-of-peace-but-finds-himself-on-brink-war
It's hilarious how even mainstream western media clearly contradicts the narrative you keep trying to paint here.
Reading is hard and I guess so is following what you said.
You were talking about him running is campaign to follow Minsk. I said he didn't run anything on his campaign about Minsk and was in fact openly stating he wasn't going to follow Minsk, but he did campaign on wanting peace with Russia.
Comprehend now?
Oh that's weird, do explain this then
Seems like Minsk was very much on the table before revisionism started.
He was referring to a ceasefire and peace talks. There's not quoted text of him outright calling Minsk and lots of quotes of him stating he's not going to follow Minsk.
Go ahead and show me quotes from him saying he won't follow Minsk during his election campaign.
I gave you three links that look critically point by point over his campaign election promises showing where he's failed.
I asked you to provide a quote from Zelensky during his campaign where he says he's not going to implement Minsk.