this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
1328 points (99.4% liked)
Technology
60084 readers
2175 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Nintendo could have raked in millions by doing it themselves, but they prefer their closed ecosystem.
The quality of what the community is doing vs what they shipped with NSO especially on launch is laughable.
Native OoT and MM on the switch would have been really sick. Instead they went with 90s level of emulator quality.
I was actually going to pay for NSO solely to be able to play OoT on the Switch. Then I saw that it was a pile of emulated muddied crap.
Has nothing to do with their closed eco system. They basically did similar stuff with some of the stuff in the sm3d collection thingy.
Nintendo is a company that only wants make new stuff, innovations.
For example, they ( mostly miyomoto ) has been quoted to not understand that people want another f-zero, as the game's principals and ideas have been fully flushed out and no new ideas could make it feel like something new.
They also usually dont do remakes/remasters unless its so new/different it can be considered a new game ( see metroid 2 on 3ds ).
If that is a smart business position to have, i will leave for you to decide, but do get your facts a bit straight :)
EDIT: also, nintendo has used open source projects for internal projects before, so idk how "closed ecosystem" is part of their stuff :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_featuring_Mario
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Legend_of_Zelda_media
I think the point is they go for new games instead of remakes. Not that they don't use the same IP.
https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_games_remade_for_Nintendo_Switch
https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-nintendo-remakes-and-remasters-of-all-time-ranked
Hell even the list of Wii-U games ported to the Switch is staggering. As an early adopter of the Wii-U, implying Nintendo doesn't like rehashing old ideas is laughable.
https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Wii_U_games_ported_to_the_Nintendo_Switch_system
I didn't realise so many non-Nintendo studios made games for Nintendo. I'm not a console gamer so I wouldn't know. You should have posted this the first time, but I guess now you understood their point. You're welcome :)
https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-nintendo-remakes-and-remasters-of-all-time-ranked
List Length: 41
Nintendo Developed Games: 21
Nintendo Published Games: 41
Most of the games on that list fit that definition. Stuff like Zero Mission are extremely different from the original games.
Of course then you also have stuff like BDSP so it’s debatable whether they’ve kept up their policies in recent times, but you could definitely see that in the past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
"Those aren't remakes, they're completely different games."
Pokemon: Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Fire Red, Leaf Green, Let’s Go Pikachu, Let’s Go Eevee
They've been digging mario out of the dumpster for the last 40 years wtf are you dementia-ing on about?
I think they mean either all-new or straight dumpster-dive, no enhancing old games.
What about all the HD Zelda remakes?
You're missing the point.
Is the point "ignoring all exceptions, what I say is true"?
No, see, the point's over there now. Tachyon took it with them.
But now they've got that new green Mario!
“Mario” barely qualifies as a single franchise at this point. It spans a ridiculous amount of genres.
And, ironically, Odyssey at least re-uses almost all of it from time to time. Sure, the movement is slightly different, but it's the same game they've been making since SM64. The 3D Super Mario games at least are all almost identical, with different worlds and slightly different movement.
They did not.
For Super Mario 64, they emulated it. They increased the resolution the game renders at (trivial with emulation of 3D systems) and they used basic LUA patches in the emulator to override HUD textures with higher resolution ones adjusted for the Switch controller.
They did not add any further enhancements in any way. Compared to even 64 DS, it was extremely sophomoric. Compared to the Super Mario 64 decomp project, and what its native switch port is capable of (more on that later), it's an incredibly lazy port. They didn't even fix the slowdown with Bowser's Sub that is as simple as adjusting a single compiler flag when you build the ROM from the N64 game source code.
For Sunshine, it's an admittedly impressive solution of mostly emulation with some sections of the game engine ported (I think it's the audio processing?). Once again, the game is rendered at a higher resolution, but they did not redo ot improve further any textures (besides some of the HUD again), graphical effects, or game content. Wind Waker HD this ain't.
For Galaxy they cannibalized the existing port of it to Android on the NVidia Shield. The Switch shares most of the important internals with it (CPU, GPU). It's a combo of emulation with certain key code ported, like Sunshine. Again, besides resolution and HUD, no improvements.
Beyond that, Nintendo has been content to sell straight up emulation through the Virtual Console service since the Wii. They've had multiple instances of straight ports over the years, and some of the most popular Switch games are straight ports with DLC bundled in.
There are numerous impressive remakes they have done over the years, but that is absolutely not the norm.
The Super Mario 64 decomp on the Switch supports (not available in Nintendo's official port in 3D All Stars):
I don't think anyone was expecting something amazing out of 3D All Stars, but they absolutely fucking phoned it in.
Ye, the sm64 was just a jit emulation, you are correct there. Not gonna deny that either. The sms and smg emulations are interesting and impressive though. They basically use a combination of jit compilation and aot compilation to basically take in the rom and adjust code as they go, but its technically running +/- natively, if i read the switchbrew wiki page correctly, thanks to the aot compilation. I find that impressive, from a technical standpoint.
Could they have added more and do more changes? Yes, ofcourse. Im not saying the fan made stuff isnt impressive, it is and i love it!
But for nintendo, who strives to create new experiences and things, not rehashing older stuff, is why they kept it basic. For them adding that stuff doesnt make sense as the game doesnt add new enough experiences. They dont care if a bug is fixed or graphics are improved. Those dont get you new experiences or gameplay mechanics. Thats what nintendo strives for.
Again, if that is a good stance to have as a company i leave up to others to make opinions on, thats not up to me to decide or voice my opinion on ^^
Fyi, since you seem to know what youre talking about, nintendo's r&d have used open source projects before internally and we assume it is done to look at older games and see how they worked or if they could be used to make projects like sm3d ( without doing what the license doesnt permit )
Innovate means needing to pay for an online service to transfer saves between consoles, saves stored on an SD card?
Do they DMCA fan made games because the game concepts have been fully fleshed out?
When copyright expires for FZero in a century perhaps we can find out if there's more to be done (well, not us personally).
This is also why we'll never get another Star Fox.
sad furry noises 😿
Damn you got mob downvoted for explaining exactly how Nintendo thinks. You're absolutely right. People don't seem to want to accept that Nintendo operates as an idea toy company. Once they've explored a new idea/gimmick they consider it completed and move on.
Haha, i kinda expected it tbh. The internet hates nintendo and doesnt know how they operate internally. Still wanted to make the comment, as it is needed.
Except they don't? What about Odyssey was new? It's just a new version of SM64. Sure, it's got a few different mechanics than SM64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, but those are all the same game at the core, right? This isn't the only series they do like this.
The game mechanics and gimmicks are different in everyone of the games you just listed.
Barely. Odyssey even specifically references most of the older games to point out how it's very similar. They all add a small movement mechanic, but other than that jumping has been the same since SM64.
If we say the Mario games are totally different and don't reuse ideas, no game does. Literally every game changes at least something small. Hell, patches in some games change more than what has changed between those games.
Ok. Let me know after you've actually played any of those games.
Have a good one.
See my edit above.
Also, check out this video. It has a lot of side-by-side comparisons of SM64 and Odyssey.
The developers wouldn't argue it isn't treading the same ground. In some cases, they literally have you tread the same ground. They send you back to Peach's castle, just like we're back in SM64. They know they're running off of nostalgia.
Every game repeats stuff from older games. The 3D Super Mario games do this more than most. Call of Duty has changed more than these games have.
I can't think of another series that repeats the same things, tell you explicitly as part of the game that it's repeating the same things, and then has fans argue it isn't repeating things again. Of course it is. We all know if is, and that's part of why it sells. There's so much nostalgia bait because they know the nostalgia is what sells a lot of their games.
I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the SNES, but I've played a bit of SM64, a good chunk of Sunshine, and most of Odyssey (all when they were new, not since). I can tell how much they all share and I'm not even a fan of the games. An honest fan would agree.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this video.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
a good chunk of the switch top sellers are WiiU games. new isnt always on the table.