this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
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It’s the deepest Ukrainian drone strike of the war, so far

A month after Ukraine began bombarding targets inside Russia with explosives-laden sports planes modified for remote flight, one of the do-it-yourself drones has struck an oil refinery in the city of Salavat, more than 800 miles from the front line of Russia’s wider war on Ukraine.

It is, by far, Ukraine’s longest-range raid—and an escalation of Ukraine’s deep-strike campaign targeting Russian refineries, factories and strategic military sites.

And it’s at least the fourth attempted deep strike involving Ukraine’s sport-plane drones. Videos shot by people on the ground in Salavat clearly depict the wide straight wings, fixed wheels and propeller that are typical of an inexpensive sport plane, the kind a middle-class pilot can build at home from a kit costing as little as $90,000.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

They must have done something to it, because Wikipedia puts its max range as 680 miles.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago

Adding a 5 gallons gas tank isn't that hard.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Empty weight 260 kg. So a normal Pilot 70-80 kg adds 25-30% weight on top. Plus the weight for seat, steering wheels etc. So with a small payload they probably safe quite some weight.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

Plis adding extra fuel tanks in spota for cargo/pilot etc. prob helps and striping it off anything unnecessary like seats breaks etc...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (4 children)

We aren't talking about the weight of the payload though. Don't you need a fairly hefty bomb to meaningfully damage a refinery?

If the answer is no, I would love to see this strategy implemented in a longer ranged plane. Russia's main tank production factory is about 2000 miles from the nominal Ukrainian border.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Total weight is crucial for how far a plane can fly. So - Pilot weight + Payload weight needs to be considered.

In terms of damage, if you hit the right spot without redundancies you can shut down or severely limit operations of a plant even with only a small material damage. Even if there is no visible damage, reducing the structural integrity of pressure pipes and the like can force a shutdown of that equipment until the damage is properly investigated.

In 2019 Houthis successfully attacked two Saudi refineries with a small swarm of drones, forcing a shutdown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abqaiq%E2%80%93Khurais_attack

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Good context, cheers

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

A refinery has a tank with millions of liters of gasoline. It already has the bomb. All you really need is a penetrator and an igniter.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

A refinery has a tank with millions of liters of gasoline

Typically buried underground.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You… got a source for that?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Fifteen here. Underground tanks are not that common. They are a maintenance and environmental nightmare. But it would be nice if you could provide with any evidence other than “trust me bro”.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Underground tanks are not that common. They are a maintenance and environmental nightmare.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2015/10/19/124674/on-edge-of-houston-underground-caverns-store-huge-quantities-of-natural-gas-liquids/

http://www.gazprominfo.com/articles/gas-storage/

Underground salt plumes are some of the most efficient natural forms of liquid and gas storage.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

So all you need to do to build a tank is to move your entire facility to where natural geology favors not building a tank?

That still says nothing about the prevalence of above ground vs underground tanks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So all you need to do to build a tank is to move your entire facility to where natural geology favors not building a tank?

Large storage facilities are located where geology makes storing energy underground cheap.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Man, now you’re just moving goalposts. Did they blow up a refinery or whatever you’re cooking up in your head? It’s clear you’re not having an honest discourse here. Goodbye.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Did they blow up a refinery

It's not clear how much damage they did or if they even fully halted operations. Normally, you want to hit a facility like that more than once.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

From the pictures on twitter damage seems pretty minimal.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Don’t you need a fairly hefty bomb to meaningfully damage a refinery?

Depends on where you drop it.

But otherwise, the headline is almost certainly overstated. It makes for some sexy war propaganda, though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It does also show Russia that Ukraine is capable of bypassing their defenses and successfully attacking infrastructure (or military installations/encampments) several hundred kilometers inside Russia.

And doing it multiple times.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Ukraine is capable of bypassing their defenses

That's never been in doubt. It's been a war of attrition from day one.

The extended range in a gonzo mission is notable precisely because it's so desperate.