this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2024
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Far more animals than previously thought likely have consciousness, top scientists say in a new declaration — including fish, lobsters and octopus.

Bees play by rolling wooden balls — apparently for fun. The cleaner wrasse fish appears to recognize its own visage in an underwater mirror. Octopuses seem to react to anesthetic drugs and will avoid settings where they likely experienced past pain. 

All three of these discoveries came in the last five years — indications that the more scientists test animals, the more they find that many species may have inner lives and be sentient. A surprising range of creatures have shown evidence of conscious thought or experience, including insects, fish and some crustaceans. 

That has prompted a group of top researchers on animal cognition to publish a new pronouncement that they hope will transform how scientists and society view — and care — for animals. 

Nearly 40 researchers signed “The New York Declaration on Animal Consciousness,” which was first presented at a conference at New York University on Friday morning. It marks a pivotal moment, as a flood of research on animal cognition collides with debates over how various species ought to be treated.

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Considering that as sentient beings ourselves, we don't really even understand sentience, it's kinda bold to assume we've got a monopoly on it.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Similarly I wonder how much of the observation is projection. We don't know what the bee thinks it's getting out of rolling the ball around, we don't know that the fish was actually reacting to seeing itself. At some level we're assuming that's what's going on because it makes sense to us.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago

We are limited by our own understanding and imagination, but I don't know any other explanation for silly little nonproductive activities other than "play". Is it because it is play, or is it beyond our understanding? We can't communicate with them, but we can draw parallels between their behaviors and our own natural behaviors.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Humans have a really, really hard time NOT assigning human attributes to every other living thing.

One thing that makes this hypothesis seem possible, is that some researchers are suggesting consciousness is external, and eternal. Meaning all living things are essentially antennae.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That really reeks of "scientists invent God." And I question the actual motives of any researcher that would suggest such an idea.

Show me the data that suggest that. Describe a test that might prove it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

I think Penrose was talking about devising one. What do you think the motives would be?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is basic, but there are thousands of lectures, books, and papers on it, going back to the 80's.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/think-well/201906/can-consciousness-exist-outside-the-brain

https://youtu.be/Ci2npsJIvFc?si=Vaf2Z9m6MLsbgMjR

Or anything with Donald Hoffman, which there is a ton.

Basically, our brain just handles our cognitive needs, and filters consciousness, which is a fundamental property of the universe. Think what you will, but this is a pretty popular theory in the past decade or so. Among physicists and neurologists alike...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

So, there's a chance that there's an afterlife, I mean if the brain isn't the SOURCE of conciousness? But are you sure it's popular? I heard neurologists were strictly "Brain is the source"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

With a couple of perfect millennia of perfect human development and advances in all fields, we probably wouldn't think of these versions of ourselves as more or less sentient than other thing populating Earth.

Sure, they paint caves & make 10s videos, but that's just natural automation, a response to environment, simply not knowing better.