this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2024
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    Valve made the right decision (lemmy.world)
    submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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    [–] lemmeee 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    Can you explain what parts of SteamOS are not controllable in a way that makes it more restricted than Arch, which it is based on?

    Valve won't release the source code and I don't use it, so it's hard for me to tell which packages are proprietary and which are not. Steam client for sure is proprietary and it comes with the OS. Arch by default is Free Software (other than proprietary blobs in the kernel) and you can audit what each program does and modify it. With SteamOS you can't do that, because Valve keeps secrets from you on your own device.

    [If the account owns the game - allow user to download and run the game] is a DRM sure… But it’s kind of fair, no?

    To play any game you have to install and run the proprietary Steam client and be logged in to an account. Even to play singleplayer games. Even if you bought a physical disc. There are stores that don't do this: gog.com and itch.io. They provide an optional client for convenience, but you can just download a game's installer from the website and install it on any PC any time you want. In case of Itch the client is Free Software so anyone can see what it does and modify it.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    Valve won't release the source code

    That doesn't mean you can't control how it works. Most people don't need sources of their Linux distros to use them as they want. It would be cool to have the source, but you wouldn't expect them to have an official maintained repo since they spend much more resources on actual hardware that needs this distro.

    Steam client for sure is proprietary and it comes with the OS

    Yeah it seems to also be the only thing that is proprietary in SteamOS too.

    To play any game you have to install and run the proprietary Steam client and be logged in to an account.

    Are you clueless or what? There are too many ways to do what you want with SteamOS. You can use offline mode, desktop mode, play pirated games in any mode, install any controller software you like. Finally, install another Linux distro on it, or Windows. But people buy Deck because of SteamOS mostly since it creates the intended (and expected) experience.

    Wanna know why we aren't seeing many enthusiasts creating more handheld frontends for platforms like Deck? Yeah, not at all because the platform is locked behind DRM or other bs. But because the best experience most people expect is already available and it becomes better with updates.

    [–] lemmeee 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    That doesn’t mean you can’t control how it works. Most people don’t need sources of their Linux distros to use them as they want.

    You can't easily make changes to a program without the source code or even check what it does. Most people are not programmers, so others study the code and make the necessary changes for them.

    It would be cool to have the source, but you wouldn’t expect them to have an official maintained repo since they spend much more resources on actual hardware that needs this distro.

    This is not an excuse. What they are doing is unethical. They put themselves in a position of power over their users. Not much different from Microsoft or Apple.

    Yeah it seems to also be the only thing that is proprietary in SteamOS too.

    I don't know if that's true. But the Linux kernel is proprietary as well (just like the one in Arch) - it contains binary blobs without the source code.

    Are you clueless or what? There are too many ways to do what you want with SteamOS. You can use offline mode, desktop mode, play pirated games in any mode, install any controller software you like.

    I was explaining to you how DRM works and why it's wrong, since apparently you have no idea. I don't know why you are listing features that any popular desktop operating system has (even Windows). SteamOS is still proprietary, which makes it unethical.

    Finally, install another Linux distro on it, or Windows. But people buy Deck because of SteamOS mostly since it creates the intended (and expected) experience.

    If you buy a Windows laptop, you can install any operating system on it too. That doesn't make Windows ethical.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    You can't easily make changes to a program

    99% users won't ever need that. For cases when they do, they can find guides, modify settings or install software that does what they want.

    This is not an excuse. What they are doing is unethical.

    People don't need an excuse. They play their games and that's it.

    it contains binary blobs without the source code

    Any distro you download can do this exact thing and you wouldn't know for a long period, unless you spend enough time to compile the whole thing yourself, compare and research.

    I was explaining to you how DRM works and why it's wrong

    I consider myself knowledgeable but you surely chose a wrong example to teach people about DRM. Try some denuvo or eac maybe.

    If you buy a Windows laptop, you can install any operating system on it too. That doesn't make Windows ethical.

    Whatever that means, users don't care about it. Compared to others, Valve provides a lot more value in most of their solutions. They are hackable just enough to satisfy most enthusiasts.

    [–] lemmeee 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    99% users won’t ever need that. For cases when they do, they can find guides, modify settings or install software that does what they want.

    You could make the same excuse for Windows.

    Any distro you download can do this exact thing and you wouldn’t know for a long period, unless you spend enough time to compile the whole thing yourself, compare and research.

    You don't have to compile to know this. You can find the list of fully free distros here: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html . Debian removes those blobs too, but it's not on that list for other reasons.

    I consider myself knowledgeable but you surely chose a wrong example to teach people about DRM. Try some denuvo or eac maybe.

    That's DRM too and there are many more examples. Blu-ray also contains DRM. And so do most PC games thanks to Valve. Console games on the other hand usually don't have DRM when you buy a physical copy.

    Whatever that means, users don’t care about it. Compared to others, Valve provides a lot more value in most of their solutions. They are hackable just enough to satisfy most enthusiasts.

    I know that most people don't care about their freedom, privacy or security. Most people use Windows. But this doesn't stop us from trying to build a better world for ourselves and to try to convince others to care.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    You don't have to compile to know this. You can find the list of fully free distros here: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

    The distros being removed from this list mostly by requests from maintainers means it's not actively monitored or researched at all. So by not verifying it you put yourself on a mercy of other people. It will fail, if not already.

    Console games on the other hand usually don't have DRM when you buy a physical copy.

    That's because you have to use consoles to even read them. They contain hardware DRM and are far from being ethical.

    But this doesn't stop us from trying to build a better world for ourselves and to try to convince others to care.

    Am I missing something or you're thinking that starting with least offenders is a good idea?

    [–] lemmeee 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    The distros being removed from this list mostly by requests from maintainers means it’s not actively monitored or researched at all. So by not verifying it you put yourself on a mercy of other people. It will fail, if not already.

    What are you talking about? It's a list made by the Free Software Foundation. What was removed? If some information is incorrect, you should be able to prove it.

    That’s because you have to use consoles to even read them. They contain hardware DRM and are far from being ethical.

    I don't know what hardware DRM means, but they use proprietary software, so you are right that they are unethical. I never said they were.

    Am I missing something or you’re thinking that starting with least offenders is a good idea?

    I don't know what you mean.

    [–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    What was removed?

    Check the Historical section.

    I don't know what hardware DRM means

    It means hardware modules like chips containing the code that you'll have to do a lot of work to even dump, before trying to interpret and make use of it. Physical games also mostly use storage that degrades over time and I consider it another form of DRM.

    I don't know what you mean.

    Why do you bash Valve but not any other company like Apple, Nvidia etc?

    [–] lemmeee 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

    Check the Historical section.

    Those distros are just not being developed anymore, so they are no longer recommended.

    Why do you bash Valve but not any other company like Apple, Nvidia etc?

    I do. I will never buy anything from those companies.

    [–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

    Those distros are just not being developed anymore, so they are no longer recommended.

    If they would actively monitor all listed distros they wouldn't need to be messaged by maintainers for a distro to get delisted. This means they don't do monitoring. Someone just compiled a list and called it recommendations. It doesn't seem to add anything to the whole process of making sure that public downloads contain only ethical code, if there is even such a thing.

    I do. I will never buy anything from those companies.

    Your comment history doesn't show that. Only a couple of comments about Nvidia, no real thoughts about Apple. But you made at least 2 posts about Valve and oh boy some of your takes on them show you don't really understand what you're talking about.