tomatopathe

joined 1 year ago
[–] tomatopathe 21 points 10 months ago

Israel and allies have spent enormous resources convincing themselves and anyone they can that Palestinians don't exist.

[–] tomatopathe 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

No, not immediately, and also for very different reasons. Palestinians, no matter where they end up, have a large sense of identity and continue to identify at Palestinians, be they Muslims or Christians - continuing to speak in their own dialect for example - while Israel expends enormous resources convincing themselves and anyone who will listen that "there is no such thing as a Palestinian". Palestinians by and large do not want to leave Palestine, because if they do they would likely never be able to return - especially if forced out by the IDF.

  • Lebanon has already absorbed Palestinians but Lebanon has a small population that is in a delicate demographic balance between their various religious groups - Maronite (Catholics), various Orthodox Christian, Sunni, and Shi'a, among many others. Lebanon is a creation of France in order to have one country in the Middle East be majority Catholic, but the demographics have shifted (due to emigration, birth rate differences and incoming refugees) and led to various civil conflicts, including a devastating civil war which drew in all their neighbors, and the current power sharing agreement is a precarious peace while larger foreign powers still meddle there, supporting one group or another. Hisbulla for example is a Shi'a Iranian proxy with a fairly large and kind of effective military wing independent of the state, while the West funds the official yet ineffective and probably incredibly corrupt state military. Adding more people, a majority Sunni, upsets the balance further, so Lebanon is reluctant to do so, understandably.

  • Egypt has also absorbed Palestinians over the years, but Egypt is also very careful about accepting people whose politics are principally driven by religion, especially Sunni Islam. Not saying that all of Gaza is politically religious, but many are, and Hamas definitely is. Allowing Israel to easily annex Gaza by allowing Israel to expel all Palestinians there to Egypt would cause the Egyptian State all manner of trouble. Also the pro Palestinian cause is very well favored by ordinary Egyptians, so the government cannot simply help Israel to kick them out by absorbing them. Either way you see it, it is not in Egypt's interests to accept.

  • Jordan has absorbed more Palestinians than anyone else. 60% of Jordanians are Palestinian in origin, and there are hundreds of thousands of refugees there also (i.e Palestinians without Jordanian citizenship) living there. The source of conflict between the PLO (whose leadership was exiled in Jordan at the time) and the Jordanian monarchy at the time was not sparked by the Palestinians "just being there" but rather that the Jordanian King Abdulla was opposed to Palestinian nationalism, and vehemently opposed the idea of a Palestinian state, since he always believed that any land that did not become Israel was his to rule by right, since Britain offered his ancestor all of Palestine during WW1 (all while double crossing the Arabs to offer it to the Zionist movement also). The Jordanian monarchy is not native to Jordan but rather originate in Arabia. Anyway this put the monarchy at odds with the goals of the PLO and Jordan failed to rein them in. Jordan is very receptive to Palestinian refugees though even though they are demographically overwhelmed by them, and lack the resources to absorb so many (Jordan is one of the driest countries on the planet).

  • Syria is in no state to absorb millions of Palestinians, although before the war they had done so.

  • Saudi and Gulf states don't really give much of a shit. They are happy to accept Palestinian workers, often educated professionals such as teachers, doctors, engineers and such. Not millions of refugees.

Essentially, each country has reasons to not do what Israel wants. And two of the major reasons on top of it all is that it is what Israel wants, and it is not what the Palestinians want. Palestinians want their homeland.

[–] tomatopathe 21 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Your iPhone / Samsung is manufactured there. So no, that's a bad take. You get what you pay for, and good quality is still cheaper than made elsewhere.

[–] tomatopathe 8 points 10 months ago

I suggest you watch reviews of the BYD fleet. They are incredibly positive.

[–] tomatopathe 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Bah Canada has no independent foreign policy. We just follow the United States.

[–] tomatopathe 10 points 11 months ago

This is all true, and yet it's still a good thing.

The more people invest in this stuff the cheaper it will get.

[–] tomatopathe 4 points 1 year ago

That is not true unfortunately. I tend to be very left wing socially - economically I'm more left of center - and that was reflected on my social media as well - either pushing me towards more radical content or stoking anger with more radical right wing content to get me riled up and coming back for more.

I ended up with a growing hatred and emnity for a growing number of people and "groups", and black and white thinking. Even though I was aware that I was being manipulated, it was still impossible to sit on a high horse above the fray.

It's quite easy to manipulate human minds, even ones that are careful and aware. We can all be manipulated. It's why advertising works, for example.

The only thing to do really is to not play that game. Avoid advertising, avoid other content curators deciding what you get to see and telling you how to reason, etc... realise that most people are empathetic, that most people want what's best, and those that are radical have been manipulated to be that way, sadly.

[–] tomatopathe 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

This is the first generation with worse prospects than the previous one. Wealth inequality is growing, and robber barons are back. Climate change is making any prospects even worse.

Combine that with a communication revolution (social media, to be exact) which allows anyone to pretty much target anyone else with any message they feel like, means disinformation pushing narratives is everywhere. And not to forget, there people in charge of these platforms are among the aforementioned robber barons.

It's easy to offer simple solutions to these problems and push disinformation to people who don't have the knowledge, time or energy to debunk everything and think deeply about things, since they're busy slaving away to put food on their tables, struggling to build a future, and looking for solutions. And simple answers give people a sense of control or explanation over their difficult situation.

It's why I have completely removed myself from every social media platform there is, except this one and I'm only on here intermittently.

[–] tomatopathe -4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Israelis will never accept to become a minority. It's as simple as that.

[–] tomatopathe 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I'm not a communist because I think communism is a big failure.

So is deregulation and unfettered capitalism. It's why every time we deregulate and cut taxes, the wealth gap gets wider, life gets shitter for everyone but the wealthiest, etc...

These are the same clowns who added most of the debt (Bush and Trump tax cuts) then complain about the debt when they're no longer in power.

[–] tomatopathe 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

Honestly? Yeah I don't see any way around this than to simply predicate all aid to the region on conditions.

  1. Israel on the demand that not one more brick be laid anywhere outside Israel's borders and a plan with enforcement mechanisms to dismantle the settlements that are there in order to guarantee the possibility of a sustainable Palestinian state with an economy under their own control (I.e that trade, commerce, construction, monetary policy be Palestinian and not imposed by Israel). That reparations be paid to families of the victims of this bombing campaign and settler violence over the years, that those who perpetrated violence be brought to justice.

  2. Palestine on the condition that they renounce the right of return, that they apprehend and surrender all militants to an international tribunal, that they recognize Israel, that they pay reparations to the families of Israelis that have been killed over the years.

  3. Egypt and Jordan on the demand that they participate in the enforcement of the above.

  4. for all parties, that Jerusalem be declared either an international city, or joint capital (split East-West).

  5. that Iran be completely isolated from the region. This is a tough one, they have their fingers deep within Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Lebanon.

It's unclear how anything else can work.

If this requires a permanent UN military mission with the right to shoot to kill any threat all along the border of both Palestine and Israel, I'm fine with it. If it means Israel bitches and moans about how unfair it is, who cares. It's about time they respected and enforced the law. If it means Palestinians need to fight to dismantle their own militant orgs and fight for peace, at least they will have a light at the end of that tunnel instead of the despair of the past 70 years (and earlier too, tbh).

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