socialjusticewizard

I gave you some extras above in case you ran out, no worries

I apologize for being a little harsh here but I don't know how this is a reasonable response to what I said in this very thread. Edit: woops, apology rescinded, didn't realize you were just here to troll. Blocked instead.

I think I've made it very clear that my problem isn't that I feel the admins were beholden to that very flawed vote. It's that there was a nine day gap of nothingness including very loud refusal to respond to requests for information.

That vote was literally the first thing users did with agora, almost the moment it opened. Clearly it's something users of the instance feel strongly about. Personally, it is something I consider time sensitive and that is deeply important to my own values. I'm willing to assume this is a problem of new admins on a very rapidly growing server, provided a show of good faith from here onwards, but taken on its own it is a bad look. At this stage, sh.itjust.works has taken longer than any other major instance to address the problem with e-h. Even this thread, which is a step in the right direction, is more deliberation. I suspect it's going to be another week of careful deliberation, foot-dragging, and hand-wringing to decide whether or not we're okay with hosting and serving this sort of pure garbage, which I literally found only by opening their front page and screencapping the two most recent posts.

It's an easy fucking decision, we don't need a month to decide if we're going to be a breitbart link share site.

I agree, but also I think defederation isn't the bogeyman it's being made out to be. Remember that when instances are federated, they download, store, and transmit information from each other. Sh.itjust.works is currently hosting alt-right stuff from e-h. There are plenty of things I don't like that I'd be fine just blocking myself, but I also have a line, which e-h crosses, where I am no longer willing to be an active member of a server that's okay with hosting and amplifying that signal. Even if I could block the instance from all my feeds, I'd leave sh.itjust.works for being a passive supporter of that stuff. I definitely wouldn't donate to help pay for server costs, or try to increase traffic by hosting a community on it.

There are, however, plenty of cases where I - as someone who comes here to relax - would prefer to block particular instances and to have better control over blocking specific users and communities, but would not be put out by the instance as a whole still being okay with that content. This isn't that. And as I've said elsewhere, if the community disagrees, that's fine. I'll go somewhere else, where the instance better reflects my values. I largely already have.

Option option option option <-- you may add this in there wherever you like, since you clearly love the word 😋

This doesn't make sense in a number of ways.

First, the problem most people have is specifically with the admins of exploding heads. I don't imagine they're attracting a great userbase given the content they promote, but it doesn't much matter. If the problem was how they moderated their users it might be something we could discuss in a different way, but the problem is that the instance is run by the people causing issues. It will not improve, you can't isolate that without just removing the instance.

Second, if there are people at exploding heads who can abide by posting rules in other instances, nothing stops them from going to other instances. Defederation is a form of democratic selection. If enough people excommunicate e-h, then the users there who can post productively on other instances will go to other instances and not get banned, and all will be well.

Defederation isn't a vote to cut every user of an instance off the internet in perpetuity. It's a vote against the administration and content of a server.

Should be noted, I don't plan to silo myself with only like minded people. I have a line though, and exploding heads is well beyond it.

Thanks for the conversation!

Edit to explain further: for example,.even if I leave this instance, I don't have any plans to defederate from it in my other instances. It will clearly be a place far more "okay" with the alt right than I am, but that doesn't mean I need to remove it from my feed entirely.

Unfortunately we do not. We can block individual communities and users, but that also isn't perfect. I was getting pinged from a community I blocked a while ago because I left a post up there, and had to unblock the community to go delete the post in order to stop it, for example.

First, federation isn't just a passive series of links, it's paying to host and serve their content from our instance. I'm not going to be part of, and very much not going to donate to, an instance that's fine with hosting material like that.

Second, no, their admins are pretty visibly transphobic. It was seeing their transphobic memes in my feed, before this conversation even came up, that was my initial problem. Since then there's been far more stuff. Had it been a few users maybe this conversation would be different, but it's the admin and from there the entire community. I intend to be an active part of the community I join on Lemmy - I think that's really the entire point of the federation model - and I'm not going to be an active part of a community that, as I said, stores and serves that kind of stuff.

Further, I'm on here for fun. My job deals aplenty with stress along these lines... I don't need it in my relaxation time as well.

You're quite welcome to feel differently. If the vote goes against me I'm just going to leave for a place that fits my needs. Likewise I encourage you to do the same. That's how it's supposed to work.

Exactly. Thanks.

I get you, but federation is a form of sharing. We're downloading their content and storing it on our server for people to see.

I'd be quite willing to donate to an instance (I'm donating to my other instance), but I won't pay for bandwidth and storage for alt-right garbage.

Yeah, and it sounds like they were wanting to implement just that first. The problem then is mostly not telling anyone the plan, and I think that was a lack of realization rather than ill intent. We'll have to see how it all goes.

I don't particularly care which side of the neoliberal coin you want to place their memes. In fact I think by focusing on that you think this is a conservative/liberal debate is kind of telling on yourself a little.

I just don't want to platform people who, for example, call me a child abuser for allowing my kid to live the life they've asked to live. They can be as "liberal" as they like.

I haven't quite yet either or I wouldn't be here. I'm just concerned. This discussion is a good step in the right direction.