mcc

So about an hour ago I was showing this to my wife, we both saw white and gold and thought this is silly. But now somehow I am seeing blue and black and she is still seeing white and gold. Fuck me.

It is probably best addressed by strictly enforcing immigration laws in red states so we can see what happens. Red states rely on undocumented workers even more than blue states.

I wouldn't go as far as citizenship. Work visa, at least. And you know why that won't happen. Stealing out jobs and all that.

Yep, it is definitely a little weird. I mean you aren't supposed to speak English. Translate everything to pinyin and you are complant.

Right, I happen to come from China so.

Without the vast resources of the US clandestine services, it is impossible to come to such a shocking yet true conclusion.

Your original point was that that people aren’t responsible for the bad ideas of their party, so lecturing on on how to change people’s minds is disingenuous in this context.

You seem to think the world run on responsibilities. How many people you see in your life take responsibilities for everything they do and say? And I am not saying responsibilities do not matter, but you can't just interpret what I said based on your imaginary value system. I never said people aren't responsible for their ideas and what they support. It just doesn't matter in this conversation. You want it to matter? Then who are you to say "they are responsible"? Who are you to judge the consequences of policies? Who are you to call what exactly does a person believe in simply based on his party affiliation?

But if that same neighbour votes for a party that discriminates against you, while politely waving to you in the morning, you’re saying you shouldn’t hold him responsible because he’s probably a swell guy?

Well you missed the part of talking to your neighbor first. How he act alone doesn't really matter that much. To understand what he believes in you gotta talk to him. Does he hate gays? Or does he just believe in small government and love guns?

If he hate gays, and you tell him you are homosexual, would he start throwing dog shit in your yard, or would he have a painful conversation with you? That's the important part. You didn't really get what I am trying to say.

I said we keep the conversation going, I never said treat everyone like your BFF. You talk, you don't judge before you talk. You don't brand a Republican as a Nazi before you talk to him.

“Bill, we’ve been neighbours for 10 years and I enjoy having you around for BBQ in the summer months, but the fact that you support the party that wants to see my way of life restricted in this way is really disappointing and upsets me” and I absolutely would not be OK if Bill argued that he’s not responsible for voting directly against my interests.

I am honestly not sure what are we arguing about. If you are fine with talking to your neighbor in a frank manner, what do you disagree with me on? Like, how do you know Bill is going to argue that way? How about he tells you "yeh I don't really like that shit either but I don't like how the liberals are doing things yada yada"? Wouldn't you think if you talk long enough the latter response is more likely and probably a more interesting discussion to have?

Best I can say, don't make it so absolute. No one is perfect. Everyone has their share of sin. You are not an exception.

I mean if you talked with your neighbor and you can't have a beer over some heated discussions and your neighbor is throwing dog shit in your yard and calling you names, yeh, direct your protest and activisim towards them because they are an asshole.

Being a republican doesn't automatically make them an asshole. Talk first, treat a person as a person, instead of his political affiliation.

Your activism should never start with targeting people. Target ideas. Ideas won't change but people are probably amenable if you use the right approach.

So where are all the Republicans in the public sphere standing up for moderation?

You know even from liberal media that there is a moderate republican faction, and they are indeed getting hammered exactly by people just like you but from the right.

See, now, the 1920s and 1930s taught us that reasonable debate with fascists is impossible.

Where did you learn that? A reasonable debate with any extremism is impossible, it isn't just fascism. Point is you can't let an ideology slip into extremism to begin with. If you refuse to debate your position, that's already a sign of extremism, and calling your counterpart fascist doesn't really make yourself better.

So something being messed up doesn't mean you can't support it. Let's not even talk about the party, you might believe this country is fucked up. Every country have people who believe their own country has a lot of problems. It doesn't mean you don't support it. You support it because, say, you rely on it to achieve your own ideal, or perhaps you just love what it used to be and you want it to be more successful, or whatever.

The platform isn't a singular thing. I can totally see someone who's in the party to support small government and having to endure the mess that is abortion and extreme gun rights.

It's sad isn't it, how predictable people are.