Good luck to you, I hope you are able to help people and certainly respect your desire to do so.

Thanks for the pro-choice sentiment and for being so respectful!

Women dying because conservatives can't figure out that abortion is healthcare burns me to a crisp inside.

Is it your personal belief that until legislation and SCOTUS rulings align such that American citizens have access to all of those things (universal healthcare, high-quality child care network, etc), that every American should have unrestricted access to high-quality, affordable, local abortion healthcare?

I went pretty deep into the ProGrace website and blogs...sadly, leaving the woman's choice intact is not what they are about at all.

Thank you for your comment. I'm only sad I added mine so late to the conversation. I find this entire ProGrace website so scary...they're seeking to educate Christians on how to speak to vulnerable pregnant women in ways more likely to make them open to hearing Christ's message. It would be cringe if it didn't exist in the context of the regressive, christian-army-led hellscape we find ourselves in.

God’s design for pregnancy is to intertwine a woman and a child. He has made it impossible for us to try to help one while bypassing the other, but instead calls us to work for the dignity and welfare of both of them.

That's one of their two Core Beliefs--how fucking scary is that? Can you imagine being a woman with an unwanted pregnancy who doesn't have the money or access to just seek the abortion healthcare you need, and you seen an advertisement for "pregnancy crisis help" and you're desperate so you go there and then someone with that "core belief" is talking to you about some bullshit and you realize "oh, these people aren't going to help me get an abortion at all" and then you're just trying to get out of there but you're not trying to be rude....can you imagine that nightmare?? This organization is, in part, training those crisis center people to use trickier language that makes pregnant women feel like their might be some empathy for their situation...so, lengthening the period of time that woman sits in a center having her time wasted.

Can you imagine being a person who thinks that "God's design for pregnancy is to intertwine a woman and a child" and believing that you have any right to counsel a woman coping with an unwanted pregnancy??? The delusion is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

The whole this is depressing and shameful.

Yeah it's all just got to be no-strings. No conversation necessary, no information collection beyond logistics-related information, no handing out pamphlets...the religious organization gets nothing at all out of the exchange beyond the knowledge that they've acted in accordance with the tenets Christ laid out so clearly. And I'm sure some extreme tax advantage that would practically make the fleet of cars free or whatever but that can't be helped I guess, after all, this is America.

Also, I would also say maybe look within and ask yourself if you feel good about what you're doing. "Tell me your pain" is quite a thing for a human being to ask of another. If you're asking so you can better sell your god product to other women in the middle of that same pain, well, that's kind of disingenuous if you really pray on it, isn't it?

I'm guessing god and Christian community has probably been pretty transformational in your life, and that you want that for other people, too. I know that is a genuine desire. But it's also a product you're selling, and selling it to someone who is in a potentially super vulnerable position under the guise of trying to help them with their crisis is pretty bad.

The last thing I would ask you to consider, is the fact that abortion is not a difficult choice for many women. They discover they're pregnant, they immediately know that continuing a pregnancy makes no sense and know without hesitation that they need to remove this matter (that does NOT feel like a baby to them at all) from their uterus as soon as possible.

When Christians seek to understand abortion so that they can be "more Christ like" in how they approach it, they often seem to want to hear stories of pain. Like maybe the fact that the woman was in so much pain, agonized over the decision, will never truly get over it, etc, somehow makes it more understandable. "She suffered so much, I can let go of the judgement on my heart" (a WILD sentiment in the context of Christianity, the sacrifice of Jesus, etc.)

But really, many women who have abortions feel about it the same way they would about removing a suspicious mole. It's a health-related chore that needs taking care of. They're not looking forward to it, but they WILL get it done and they will never regret it. Not even for a moment.

So, as you seek to understand, know that. Abortion is healthcare. That is the reality and many women don't feel any other way about it. I think you will hear less stories like that from women because the type of women who answer your call for sharing abortion experiences will more likely be women who have had bad experiences or who feel guilt and want to share it to feel better/seek forgiveness and healing through sharing.

Women who do not regret their abortion will be vastly under-represented in the stories you collect, but I think are very important stories for you to know exist. It's easier to empathize with pain, regret, loss. If you're truly seeking to transform yourselves with empathy around this issue, you need to work to meet "Oh yeah, I didn't want it so I got rid of it and feel no regret at all" with complete understanding.

When you can look a woman in the eye, and listen to her say "Yeah I got sloppy with birth control and got pregnant but I had a trip to Europe coming up that I'd been saving for for a while and it just wasn't a good time for me to even think about a pregnancy or baby so I took a pill and it was gone and EUROPE WAS AMAZING!" and feel no judgement, just acceptance, or maybe even happiness for this woman that Europe was so lit....well. That's when you know you've truly achieved your stated goal.

From the ProGrace website:

The Church being the community of grace and support Jesus intended us to be, can address the reasons of panic, isolation, and shame that cause so many people to think abortion is their only option.

What a frightening sentence to have to read.

There is no such thing as "ProGrace"--this "third option" is co-opting and trickery. The question of whether women should have full access to healthcare during pregnancy is a completely binary one. The answer is Yes or No.

You either recognize that abortion is healthcare and believe that safe access to this healthcare, from a variety of providers, for any of the many reasons a woman may need or want it, is a woman's right, OR...you do not. Period. That's the whole thing. Any vague "third choice" is marketing trickery meant to soften the face of something that should disgust us all.

Also from ProGrace:

Our Core Beliefs 1: God’s design for pregnancy is to intertwine a woman and a child. He has made it impossible for us to try to help one while bypassing the other, but instead calls us to work for the dignity and welfare of both of them.

That really sums it up, doesn't it? "God's design for pregnancy"--this isn't a stance in healthcare conversations that should be given a moment of thought. It's fiction.

If Christians would like to begin encouraging each other to stop being judgmental toward people who have had abortions, I think that would be great. But keep the whole thing in-house, make it about Christians talking to other Christians about how they can get their behavior in line with their supposed religious beliefs. Don't make the whole thing about teaching Christians how to speak more empathetically to people who have had or are considering abortion for the purpose of being able to more successfully sell Jesus to those people. Because that's what this whole thing is actually about.

If you really want to help pregnant women the way Jesus would have wanted you to, use some of that sweet, sweet untaxed money from your money piles to start a car service that ONLY gives free rides (chauffeur style with the tinted window between the driver and passenger if the passenger would like to have it up) to women and one or two support people to and from their abortions. No conversation, no strings attached. And pay for the abortions. And throw in a Starbucks card with like $25 on it. Show these women the heart of Christ with your actions, not with phony words meant to control their minds, and maybe after they have their abortion that act of no-strings-attached kindness will have made such and impact that they will seek out a "church community" themselves instead of having to be coerced and cajoled into one in a moment of true despair.

Seriously, this is your new campaign...."WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? He would drive you to your abortion and pay for it, too, cause he was just that kind of guy."

EDIT: typo.

Hell of a read, thanks so much for posting.

Thanks, SpaceNoodle <3

I’m so impressed with how devs and community members across federated content spaces are handling the technological and communications challenges that are arising as many of us are flocking and trying to talk with each other and grow new communities.

This has got to be a really fun but tough time for those behind the scenes—thank you, all of you!!

I’ve been so happy with the tone and discussions here. I am hopeful that as we continue to grow we will see lots of people from Reddit, but that we will all check the reddit culture at the door. It feels really nice here.