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Plenty of services offer both options because they might as well.

The fediverse will never offer phone numbers as a regustartion option. Why? One, it's invasion of privacy (something the fediverse is strictly against), and two, it's a service that costs money, while email is free.

And email really isn't secure in the first place.

Nobody said it is, it can easily be spoofed. In fact, phone number registration/sign in is far more reliable... but that is invasion of privacy.

But also, there are plenty of services that only offer email signup, and plenty of people use them, and I've never really heard of anybody having an issue signing up with email, my mom manages, my sisters manage, my technophobic cousins manage.

Yes, if the services offer "sign in with Google/FB/Twitter", yes, most people will use that. Ask them if they usually use the last "sign in with email" option and you have your answer... because the other methods I mentioned requires just one click/tap, but not the email option.

But they would never come to the fediverse in the first place, because the fediverse never really had a selling point that mattered to any of them.

It's best that they don't in that case.

They want to see their friends, and their friends don't use it, or see their hobbies, and nobody talks about their hobbies, or see anything that they could possibly care about, and there's none of that here.

Great, it's not for them 🤷. Agree to disagree and move on 🤷.

I know plenty of people who signed up for accounts and never posted because there's nothing to talk about, nobody to engage with.

I beg to differ. There are plenty of subjects that appeal to my interests. It's just that there are non for most non-tech oriented people. And that's fine, they have the rest of the social medias for that. Hey, I got a few subs on reddit that will never move here and all of them are tech related. And that's fine as well, I'll just visit them from time to time on reddit, don't get what the big deal is 🤷.

Why the fuck would you ever bother to explain country codes to her? Nobody needs to know about country codes, you're inventing this problem.

Why are you trying to explain email or federation to people? It's basically the same thing, why in the hell do they need to know that? Oh, yeah, that's right, cuz they need to understand at least the basics of it in order to be able to join it. Or maybe I should just open an account for them and just add communities I think they might like, then hand over the account... yeah, that's best I think.

/s

The point is for them to do it, not me do it, lol. Get them interested, not me do the hard work for them. This is not an email account I open for my granma to make my life easier when paying her bills, cuz she won't check that email anyhow (one, doesn't know how, two, doesn't care as long as the bills are paid). If people are not interested or can't understand federated networks like email or the fediverse, this is just not for them, period.

I'm getting the impression that when you say you don't understand email, you're talking about how people don't know how email routing works, don't understand pop vs imap, don't understand why the sender field is sometimes not accurate. That's not what I'm talking about, because it doesn't fucking matter.

No, that is not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talkimg about how basic understanding, what does @mail.server means, what does the uname in [email protected] means, how does the mail server know where to send the email, stuff like that. It's not quantum mechanics, these are basic things, stuff that most people in 2023 should most definitely know and understand. Guess what, most don't 🤷.

You're just looking for excuses to call them stupid to make yourself feel smarter.

No, and I'll explain why.

The current state in which the fediverse is in, is a bit clunky. This instance doesn't federate with that instance, god knows why, you can't join this or that comm/mag, god knows why as well, users on Lemmy can't follow other users, period. Not to mention things like, you search for this or that comm, but the search doesn't return anything. Ah, but if you put in the full URL of the comm/mag, the search does return results... but you have to wait for a few seconds for results to appear 🤨... why is that? And I tap/click on that comm and I wanna join it, but it says I'm logged out 🤨... I'm logged in, I clearly am, WTF is this 🤦.

See, these are problems that you can't explain unless that person has basic understanding of how the fediverse works. If they don't understand or can't understand, than this thing is just broken for them and/or too complicate. And they'll, of course, leave.

Granted, some of these things are just bugs, but some of them have valid explanations that can only be explained if you want to have or already have a basic understanding of how federated services work.

So 40%, as of 2021, in OECD countries. Is that good enough for you, asshole?

I'm not even gonna answer that, since you obviously always resort to insults when you feel threatened.

Also, fun fact, 4.37 billion people use email: https://techjury.net/blog/how-many-email-accounts-are-there/. (yeah, that article is written weirdly).

Thay doesn't mean they understand the concept of email. Which is not a must for using email, but when the fediverse is in question, I believe it should be... otherwise, the current state in which the fediverse is in will appear broken.

How fucking stupid are you? It's literally called social media. You're confused about why people would rather see what their nieces and nephews are up to than listen to some stranger rant about how stupid everybody, everywhere is?

Once again, not gonna endulge you with an answer.

you should not be remembering your passwords. You know you're not supposed to remember your passwords, right? I have hundreds of unique, complex, randomized passwords, I don't remember them. I know a lot of normies who are smart enough to not remember their passwords, Apple and Google are both making it easy. Why are you remembering your passwords? Are you part of that 80%?

I don't remember them (some of them, yes). I have them tucked away in a safe place. Why don't use Google for saving my passwords? Oh, well, maybe it's because I don't trust it 🤷.

The real issue here is why they haven't saved their email password in the first place. Maybe it's because they don't actually use it and they opened it up only to send CVs when applying for jobs... or to open up a FB/Twitter account.

Only a feaction of those 4.2 billion actually use email, the others just open their accounts when they have to... which is mostly when they need to reset their social media accounts passwords.

Most people don't know how IG works and enjoy it just fine.

That is because IG emplyees take care of the geeky stuff in the back. Guess who takes care of that in the fediverse.

You don't need to roll your own server on the fediverse.

You might have to if you wanna upload 7, 8MB images and 300MB videos from your phone... cuz no instance will allow that. On the other hand, that wroks just fine on any other social network.

You don't need to compile your own app from source.

If you don't like how something works or you wanna chamge it your liking, you will have to.

You don't need to set up your own image server to share images from.

You won't have to do that if you set up your own instance.

You just need to come here and lurk, or vote, or comment, or post, or whatever, and have some fun.

If you wanna do everything exactly like you did on other social networks, media wise, yes, you'll have to. Almost every instance now has a limit on image size uploads. Some have it set to 100kb, enough to upload an avatar... and that's it. Hey, running servers costs money, the rate at which the fediverse is growing means at least 1GB of media per day, that is A LOT 🤷.

Guess again, dumbass.

You can pretend all you want, I know I'm right.

You never asked how I know that. The fact that you got fired up and started using curse words says a lot.

You told me I'm too young to know anything, and that you knew better because you were older.

Please quote where I wrote that. I wrote older people are wiser. Not smarted, wiser. Why? Because they have more life experience. Not every older person is wiser, but those that have more than 2 synapses firing up there, usually are.

You just don't realize how stupid you are.

Once again, trying to make me look bad or get me angry (maybe 🤔) by saying things that I might take as an insult, says a lot.

Nothing has changed in the past six years. We've had multiple moments that have felt like... oh wow, people are going to start caring about the fediverse! People are going to come join and it's going to be a place where people do things! But none of those moments materialized into anything, because a million signups mean nothing if you can't find anybody to follow, can't find any followers, can't find anybody talking about anything but the fediverse, and feel, when you post, that you're shouting into the wind. You're not going to post. You're not going to come back tomorrow. You're not going to come back in a year. You tried the fediverse, there was nothing there, you went back to the social networks where society resides.

Plase take a look at what has happened this year alone regarding social network platforms and you'll see I'm right. Reddit's API changes, Twitter limiting tweet views, Meta launching Threads and deciding to federate that platform with the fediverse. Please point at another year in which so many changes have been made on all social networks worldwide. Trust me, the time is now. If it doesn't happen now, it'll most probably never happen.

A million sign ups means a lot. If it means nothing to you, than I guess you're just expecting for miracles, which is another thing that points to your age. Younger people usually believe in these things, that some sort of a massive global shift will happen in one direction or another. Even for Reddit and Digg that took years and years. Things will move even slower because of the federation aspect of the fediverse. Don't think 1G users will suddenly shift in 2, 3 months, that is not going to happen. If the whole of the fediverse gets to 1G users in a decade from now, that should be considered a thriumph.

You're interested in normie subjects/hobbies. That's fine, no one says you shouldn't be. Just don't expect people in the fediverse to be interested in those same things. So, you're interested in fashion and suits. Those are mostly things that people with no actual preference about the direction in which this world is heading to (in general, not just the internet, social media, etc.). They're considered superficial. Not saying you are, but people interested in how they physically appear is something that appeals to status, which in turn tells a lot about how those people view the world - through status. Those are not the types of people that will usually care about the direction in which the social media platforms are heading. They usually care about how they appear in society. And that's fine too. But, they don't see anything wrong with how social networks work or where things are heading right. For them, things just work and they see no need to switch/change platforms.

You shouldn't expect to see many posts related to the subjects you're interested in on the fediverse. Those are usually not things that people who have a higher consciousness and decided to drop the mainstream social media will be interested in. Even if they are, they realize that this place will most probably never be a place where those kinds of interest will thrive, or at least not till corporate social media pose a real threat to the reputation of the fediverse (as is the case with Meta). So, they take their business elsewhere, i.e. to the social networks where these communities thrive. Hey, there's nothing weong with that, I do it as well, I have no plans to delete my Reddit accounts, they serve a purpose now and will most probably do so in the future. Not use them as frequently, yes, no doubt, the fediverse is now the first thing I open, not Reddit, when it comes to social media that is. But out right completely delete them? I really can't see a reason, there are still subs there that I know for a fact that won't switch to the fediverse. Why? They have their reasons, and I get that. I might not agree with it, but I get it. So, no hard feelings, I'll check up on them from time to time, and that's about it. My point is, you should do the same and stop asking why years have passed and yet nothing has happened regarding having more people that are interested in this or that on the fediverse. Just deal with it. It probably won't happen, so I'll just use mainstream social media, but if it does happen some day, hey, how cool, finally ☺️.

For something to change, we're going to need to have a conversation people want to join. We're going to need to build communities that people want to post in, or vote in, or lurk in, or comment in, or share posts from, or talk about, or care about. We can't just say "there's no Zuckerberg!" That's not enough.

Be that change. Start posting on a more a link like aggregator place, like KBin or Lemmy. Mastodon is more of a microblogging thing. From my experience, places more like Reddit sprout meaningful conversations regarding ceratin subjects. So, try and do the same on KBin or Lemmy, see how it goes 🤷.

Put that thing in the wild with no other info at disposal except what it has learned thus far and the real world as input (hear, smell, touch, see), let it roam and see if it can draw conclusions and learn from it's mistakes. If it can, next step would be better itself, or at least make a plan on what needs to be removed/added to, let's say, have a more precise hand grip on things, if there need to be code changes, what might they be.

These things are the real AI test, the hell with Touring tests, they don't prove anything (talk is cheap 😂), tell it to think, learn and adapt, that's the real test 👍.

These language models serve one purpose and one purpose only, to fill social networks with them and act like humans. Why? People just love to talk. That will keep them glued to the platform with more ad revenue coming in.

EDIT: I did a joke test with ChatGPT, it can't understand what the punchline is. It thinks it does, but that's not the punchline of the joke.

https://chat.openai.com/share/965a7b71-b1ad-434c-94ef-12ed1ff65028

My mom is afraid of computers, but she understands email just fine.

Really? Then please come over here and try to explain the same to my mom. Cuz I've tried it a million times, she doesn't understand the concept and she doesn't like to understand at this point, all she knows is, it works, like a phone number, it just works. She doesn't understand why calling her brother abroad without the country's calling code doesn't work, I had to type the number in her phone with the country's code because she didn't think that was important and just left the code out... cell operators were also a PITA to explain to her, and I don't think she got that either, cuz she still asks me what the first 3 numbers in front of the cell are and sometimes I give her bogus codes just to see if she'll go "don't screw with me", but she writes them down and never asks me why is this code different from all of the rest that are in use here... not ever.

So please, don't tell me everyone understands email, cuz they don't. I'll bet you whatever you want that, if you do a street questionare and ask people to explain the concept of email as plainly as possible, over 70% with either get it completely wrong or just shrug and tell they have no idea how it works.

I assume you're talking about TOR, and not Thor. I consider myself a techie, I'm a patent attorney with a degree in computer science. I've read about how TOR works a few times, and probably once new whatever it is you're getting at, but I couldn't tell you how the fuck TOR works now. And I couldn't care less. And I don't need to understand it to sign up for the fediverse or upload a photo to kbin or upload a photo to imgur.

Yeah, Tor, sorry. Had a nick on a game, Thorazine, everyone called me Thor there, so now it just slips sometimes.

You don't need to understand any of that, apparently you have a logic streak in you since you have degree in computer science. One, not everyone has that gift, two, even if they did, they might not have developed it, and three, you went to uni. Please tell me the world statistic (percentage) of people that actually went and graduated. I haven't seen the statistic either, but I bet it's no more than 15% on a global scale, which about sums my estimate of over 80% of the population not being able to understand simple things (yes, they are simple IMO) like email or federation. It's not that it's complicated, it's the attention span problem. Uni teaches to have long studying session, weeks, months at a time. People that never did that, they just can't force their brain to concentrate on one single thing for more than 5 minutes at a time, especially not if they're not getting paid for it and none of their friends use that thing that you're trying to explain. The very concept of freedom and having the choice to do things your way or how you'd like to be run, escapes them. They just don't care. They use whatever their friends, coworkers, family use. Why? Cuz why not. Everyone else uses it, it's simple, you just type in your phone, reset you password (cuz none of them actually remember it, they're not used to remembering stuff) and off you go to using that app on your new device.

You don't need to be a software engineer with experience in every field of technology to click a link, sign up for an account, and leave a comment. My mom could do it (if she wanted to, although she's probably get angry at me if I suggested it and talked to her about it for more than 20 seconds).

You proved my point with the last sentence in brackets. People usually don't care about techie stuff. Techies do, they love it, but regular people... no. Why would I bother explaining something like the fediverse or email to anyone that doesn't even wanna hear about that. Has anyone ever asked you (out of the blue) "hey man, you know how that mastodon thing works?". No... and no one ever will... not unless you start explaining first. No one cares dude, because they're perfectly OK not knowing about that and just living their lives with coproeate social media. It's a means to and end for them, they don't actually care about freedom, they don't even understand why this is free and the other one isn't, lol 😂, they're both free to them, except this one is a hell of a lot more complicated for signing up. "Now I gotta chech my email for a confirmation link, great 😒... shit, can't remember my password 🤦... aaah, fuck this shit." See how easy it is for normies to give up. Make the sign up process with a phone number and sign ups will skyrocket, I guarantee you that. But... wait, that's info that I would rather not share with a social network. Yes, for people like you and me, yes, for normies, it's just easier 🤷.

You're just being an elitist misanthrope here. This has nothing to do with the issues facing the fediverse.

I'm just real... at least that's how I see myself.

Good, same as me, thanks 👍.

Oh, that makes sense... it's a bug 🤦.

It's really not that hard to explain. Just tell them it's like email, they'll get it.

You're talking about people that open up FB accounts with a phone number... they don't understand the concept of email.

They don't even understand the concept of phone numbers, they just know they dial and get the other person on the other end, that's it.

I swear, most techies think that non-techies are another species. It's not that hard to explain things, and not everybody is as incompetent as our mothers. Young people understand technology better than old people, not worse, not sure how that part has you confuse.

You sure about that? Cuz I've had talks with young people that are considered techies amongst their friends, they know a lot less than what techies used to know at that age, which was dissapointing for me. For example, they know that Thor hides their real IP, they don't know how though. They think it's somehow magical and that it doesn't need an IP.

Though I have to admit that I have also met great ones amongst them. The trouble is, they are precious little to be found. And they're usually the weird kids, not even techies, just pure genious, future coders in most cases. So, no one actually notices them. You'll hear about them as the guy/gal that invented this or that algo that navigates this or that.

Also, a quick question if I may. How many replies do you see in this post?

https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/558897

My counter says 9, I can only see 3 (4 including my own). ~~I can see all of them from other instances, but not from sh.itjust.works 🤷.~~ Scratch that, I can only see 4 from my other accounts as well. Don't know why the counter is messed up like that.

That's why they call it a decoupling capacitor, cuz you usually just need AC (signal) at the out of a circuit, you don't need the DC part of the signal.

It's not actially AI, none of the so called AI are. They're just really good at predicting what you would like to hear.