this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
452 points (98.7% liked)

Technology

59979 readers
3161 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Arizona's solar-over-canal project will tackle its major drought issue::undefined

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 94 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Arizona and the entire South West don't have a drought problem. They have an aridification problem. While this canal project is a good move in general and we should have been doing it years ago, there is no solving the over-population of a desert. One look at Colorado River basin and its reservoirs is enough to know there is nothing we can do to fix it.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

With any luck pretty soon they'll look at alfalfa farming in the desert too

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why the fuck are humans so stupid that we decided to grow one of the thirstiest crops in the fucking desert.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because entrenched, and exceptionally wealthy interests. Reading about how about in CA there are tons of Colorado River fed foreign owned farms growing alfalfa to export to the middle east is the definition of capitalist success...the profit of a commodity has been made the most efficient; acquired cheaply for something otherwise impossible with international arbitrage as the medium.

Every time someone asks people in the southwest to take shorter showers show them this: https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2022/02/24/california-water/

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We should probably update the dictionary so the word 'greed' is synonymous to dumb, stupid, ect. Cuz it sure seems that greedy people just have a super low IQ.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They already do.

Also, all those new Intel wafer plants near Phoenix.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah... but sometimes you've gotta accept that a band-aid is all you can do. While this doesn't fix the underlying problems, if it works it'll provide more water and low carbon energy, which is better than nothing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

if it works it'll provide more water

Unfortunately they will just use even more then, so the "shortage" will be maintained.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The "one more lane" of water supply.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I really hope this works. Also: banning water-intensive farming in dumb places might help.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

It would definitely help because that is the main problem.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or we could put effort towards limitations of fossil fuels and fix it long term. Maybe both, but if we don't do former, only duct tape.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Luckily this does both, to some extent. It's not as far as we need, but solar offsets dirty energy usage.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doesn't Arizona get most of its energy from the giant nuclear power plant near Phoenix?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Well they're part of a larger grid. Any clean energy on the grid will be cheaper than dirty, so will be sold to offset dirty even if Arizona was 100% clean.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't understand how it "offsets". If someone pisses in the pool and I do it behind a tree, that somehow gets rid of piss molecules in the pool?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Water scarcity causes societal collapse throughout the American Southwest. Well written book, interesting premise - just an all around enjoyable bit of fiction.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out!

anyone that's interested:

the water knife

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Unforeseen 3 points 1 year ago

Good book :)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Open canal systems should be illegal. This is the dumbest shit we do. At least top 10 dumbest.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

As someone who knows nothing about canals (or what they are even used for), anyone want to explain why they are used, why they are dumb, and what we should do instead?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Evaporation. You lose a phenomenal amount of water moving it by canal over large distances in an arid climate. Ideally you'd enclose the whole system to reduce loss but sticking a roof over the top helps to some degree and is less complicated.

[–] Shihali 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

An irrigation canal like this is a big ditch to move water from a river to near farm fields. Without the extra water taken from the river, there wouldn't be enough water in the soil for crops to grow in the area.

Being a big ditch open to the sky, the hot sun and dry air make a bunch of the irrigation water evaporate before it even gets to the field. So we went to all the effort of taking water out of the river just to waste it humidifying the nearby air.

Why did we do it in the first place? Because it's way easier and cheaper to dig a ditch than to lay a big pipe, and I don't know if the US had any other water-delivery tech at the right scale when these were built.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Imagine a canal which is 3 feet wide at the minimum. It contains a constant volume of water. This canal ultimately waters farm land. By way of example, California has the imperial valley which contains these canal systems. They feed desert farm land. The problem is these canals are often:

  • open
  • in a hot dry desert
  • cheap

Water rights have perverted water usage. People take cheap water which was grandfathered in by old laws and agreements and they waste it to evaporation. If you think "well the water isn't lost, just evaporated, right?" You'd be close, but slightly off the mark. The water is evaporated but it's transported often hundreds or thousands of miles from its original source. We are basically bleeding rivers to feed a desert. And deserts might as well be an infinite sink for water.

We should not have farm land in deserts. But if we do, we should at least conserve the water we are using. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's good (not that you're implying that, just saying).

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

it contains a constant volume of water

This guy has never been to the Phoenix area :P we even have rivers with no water, too! Bring the whole family, camp out and have imaginary marco / polo by the hill infested with scorpions, only a half-mile from the city dump! Bring your RV so you can feel like a complete moron with the other people who thought it was a great idea to buy a mini house on wheels that gets 6 miles to the gallon. And if you are early to rise, you can make Laughlin a day-trip to lose all your social security check by dusk, before sauntering back to the depression-rut of a life you have carved out for yourself. Because living in a desert with a large elderly population, just-barely-enough power during the summer even though there is a fucking nuclear power plant 20 miles out of town, and has been in a drought for my entire life while everyone waters their lawn 3 times a week, never felt so good!

Oh sorry I got mixed up with my "fuck off and stop moving here" speech. Give me 10 minutes.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I've been to Phoenix and I agree. I don't understand why they waste so much water.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Hundreds of miles of shallow canals in the middle of the desert, where regular exceeds 120° f. The water evaporates very quickly.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They should try this at those retaining ponds where they filled them with black balls.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

There are several companies working on solar covers for reservoirs. I agree, seems like a win win. Reduce evaporation and have a large, level, "field" for solar arrays.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This idea is so poorly conceived. Imagine installing and maintaining something like this. How are those panels supposed to stay clean?The panels and the cover should both be built but they should not be the same thing. No current panels are engineered for this application so they would have to be custom made. Just getting the project to the point where the first panel could be installed would cost millions. We could get started now installing commercially available shade covers and ground mounted solar. Ground mounted solar is simple to clean, simple to maintain, and simple to replace.

I agree the idea looks like a great way to reclaim the space, reduce evaporation, and generate power I just think the money would be better spent on a plan the optimized for expenses and longevity instead of optimizing for novelty.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I guess I missed it but how are these panels any different than typical ground based PV panels? Looks like, based on the rendering, they they are on some kind of rigid scaffolding over the canal. Not sure how that is different from typical installs?

For sure cleaning them is a problem, don't have an answer to that. Hope that that is accounted for in the proposal.

load more comments
view more: next ›