There are 2 possible answers here. 1 apo requires a specific new component on the cpu that older chips don’t have. Or 2, intel is just screwing old gen chips to pressure buyers into buying the 14th gen
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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They wouldn't go through the whole engineering process again to change the 14th Gen. That's too much cost.
It might be true that something about 13 and 14 are different from 12, since that's a new die. The 13400 is based on 12th gen dies however. And if the 14400 is still based on that 12th Gen die, I'd say it's nothing but software. So if the 14400 supports this, it's nothing but software.
all theyre doing is pressuring me into the arms of AMD
If I use Process Lasso with "Performance Mode" (no core parking) and I force efficiency mode off for all games, some games will actually start using E cores and I get less stuttering. Can someone compare this to APO?
This is already tested in this video indirectly. Near the end of the video you can see benches with E cores off and brute forcing P cores. APO is still significantly better.
Yes, but that's not what I said. Some games will use E cores when I disable core parking and force efficiency mode off. So "efficiency mode" isn't just a switch that controls whether E cores are being used, it's more like a "prefer P cores" or "prefer E cores" setting, but a process can still use both when it seems necessary. It definitely behaves differently than stock settings or E cores off.
I tried it in Metro Exodus yesterday and the game used the E cores. I tried a different game (Dead by Daylight) which didn't use the E cores at all with the same settings.
Maybe a modded driver would work for previous gen?
I'm actually -so- certain that it would be easy to mod APO to work for 13th gen. It's armchair, though. None of us really have any idea of changes made. But we do know they're the same exact chip. Infrastructure. Architecture. With some minor changes that mainly amounts for nothing.
12th & 13th Gens should get support for APO...
Why would anyone buy 14th gen if 13th gen has this feature ?
In all honesty, 13th gen users won't be upgrading to 14th gen anyway unless they are at 13600K or lower.
This is also not a big feature and by the time it is rolled out into other games, 15th gen will be just around the corner and no one will be interested in buying 14th gen for APO.
Instead they should roll it out to all supported hardware and build back some of the trust they lost over the years. If anything, it will defer platform switches to AMD's 8000 series (which has 1 additional year of support as opposed to 0 for Intel).
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It’s generally expected that hardware/software companies support their past devices as long as their is no hardware limitation preventing them from doing so. (Especially in first few years)
The 14th gen offers 0 hardware improvements that would prevent this update from running on the 13th gen.
Not a single transistor has been added for this feature. It’s all in software.
They don’t get the Nvidia excuse of having to add literal new cores or a redesigned pipeline for a feature like Dlss 3.
It’s pure laziness and douchebaggery
It’s generally expected that hardware/software companies support their past devices as long as their is no hardware limitation preventing them from doing so.
Try explaining that to /r/amd
Didnt AMD reverse course on that and enable their old mobos to accept zen 3 though?
Like yeah it was a shitty block in the first place, but it was made good.
that was becuase a lot of motherboards shipped with only 16mb rom chips for the bios, and at the time that was not enough to enable support of all am4 processors. To counter this many vendors released upgraded versions of existing motherboards with 32mb of rom for the bios.
I believe amd was eventually able to work around this, but there was a technical hurdle in this case. People did need to rake them over the coals for it tho.
absolutely. there's 5800x3d chips running on b320 b350 boards! w/o any issue or performance limits.
Why would anyone buy 13th gen either if 12th gen had APO? It's often cheaper and the difference between a 12700K and 14700K was basically 7% on average in the CPU in general, not just gaming
Given the prices of 12th gen are typically lower, it would make more sense to spend less and get better price/performance
Stop justifying arbitrary product segmentation. Maybe intel shouldnt release a useless refresh. Maybe intel should value the return business encouraged by good customer will.
I know I wont be a return customer if they behave like this.
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Just hit Scroll Lock to temp disable e cores.
Wait how did you macro this?
Great idea, disable ecores and lose gaming performance....
Disabling e-cores increases gaming performance in all but like 5 games.
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How about we get a fix for cringey thumbnails?
You have to remember he is upside down.
So you are telling me they intentionally holding out a fix for PROPER thread scheduler?
Isnt it just a profile to ignore ecores? If so you can just manually do that on some boards at least on 13th gen.
I had to disable virtual cores. I’m pissed.
What would this do for 12gen intel cards?
im holding out hope that they will add 13th gen once APO is better tested it's super early for the software and only 3 games are compatible right now. 13th and 14th gen have the same architecture but 12th gen TECHNICALLY does not.
Intel won't release major scheduling software updates for devices they released nearly 2 years ago now, they used to be that company but they aren't anymore.
Intel already said no support for prior gen
Does he benchmark this vs X3D?
Intel there is no reason this cannot be extended/added to 12th and 13th gen.
Am curious if this fixed the Intel E cores low fps for cs2 vs 7800x3d and 5800x3d
Damn it, man. I just got my 12900k a month ago too.
first Frame Generation locked to 4000 Series NV GPU's and now this. something tells me this sort of thing will become the norm for PC hardware.
Only correct way to phrase this mess. I JUST bought 13th gen, this isn't some sort of enticing upsell strategy, it's just spiteful behaviour
More bait from AMD Unboxed Steve. Nothing wrong with E-Cores previously. There have been examples of poor coding on devs side like Atlas Fallen, and thats about it.
Well, leaving double digit percent of performance on the table would rank pretty firmly in the "something's wrong" category for me.
APO or not, Skip 14th gen as it is on a dead end platform, does not support thunderbolt 5, and contains no native pcie5.0 nvme direct cpu lanes.
Also I’d like to know whether AMD’s approach to hybrid architectures (zen4 + zen4c) is a better or worse approach than having multiple core architectures with differing IPC and ISA capabilities.
Different trade offs, no clear answer.
And given that raptor lake consumes more power at peak power consumption than zen4, is it even worth it to have P+E cores?
Yes.
Would intel have attained higher multithreaded performance if it offered 10 or 12 p cores + Avx512 rather than using gracemont?
No.
Like what’s the point of gracemont if overall raptor lake power consumption is much higher vs older Intel CPUs ??
It's not, at least iso perf.
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I just went with a 7800x3d on my new build. Shame 12th/13th gen users are screwed.
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Intel is a piece of junk of a company. I would never recommend anything from a company famous for screwing their buyers.
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This is completely unacceptable, I really hope they'll reverse this decision, they're in no position to make anti-consumer decisions like this.
Seems like someone could mod it to enable it for 12th and 13th gen
APO?
If they do not rectify this (give APO to 12th gen) then this will be my last intel cpu (i5-12600k)
AMD is so close in terms of pricing and performance that it is an easy switch for me.
My next platform upgrade will be AMD if Intel doesnt desire my return business
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