Discussion around the Framework mission of building products that last longer by making them upgradeable, customizable, and repairable. Consumer electronics can be better for you and for the environment.
Maybe new Processors but they won’t do shit if the software isn’t there and Windows for Arm is still a big pile of shit.
Apple is doing here a great job with Rosetta 2 having run older x86_64 software on their silicon. From what I have seen Windows isn’t really good at it. And not sure if Linux’ bindet has good performance and compatibility if you have some software where no aarch64 binary exists.
I would be very hesitant to buy a none Apple ARM based PC tbh.
Couple linux projects like box64, they're great so far but not far enough to have the optimizations to run at Rosetta speeds.
Though games are playable on android
As a Linux user, I'd mostly be fine with an ARM laptop. Except for running VMware Workstation and Windows. I don't really seem Qualcomm being able to match Apple in terms of a smooth migration from x86 let alone the problems with Windows, drivers, and decades of random apps.
ARM laptops/desktops in the PC space will happen. Replace x86? Not anytime soon. Need a machine today? Buy AMD and don't think twice about it.
They already exists. They're called Chromebooks 🤣
Also a Linux user. The biggest advantage of having an arm cpu on par to the M2 would be power consumption. I am pretty much forced to be on a MacBook at work for software development and I am blown away at the longevity of the battery. I want to install Linux on my macbook so bad and run some c/c++ compilation and runtime benchmark with some of my projects. Unfortunately that could get me in trouble 😔
They already exists. They're called Chromebooks 🤣
I don't consider Chromebooks to be real computers... They're tablets with a OS designed for using a keyboard and touchpad. I say that as someone who used to work for a school and repaired laterally hundreds of chromebooks. Everything about chromebooks has more in similarity with a decent tablet than it does a computer.
They've been saying that since the 90s (ever seen the movie Hackers?). So don't hold your breath.
I guess there is nothing stopping framework 13 from going ARM
Nah, I want something that will be 100% compatible with older video games. So x86 it is for me.
I find the ARM processor very interesting. Ultimately it's about sheer horse power. ARM for Windows is lacking but the forthcoming generation is so powerful, apparently faster than the m2 by quite some margin, that it will mean that x86 emulation finally works properly.
More and more applications will have native ARM support as they are compiled to support it.
I doubt that Framework will implement an ARM board for a while but it is an interesting concept.
The processors aren't the big hurdle, the ecosystem is. There's just too much legacy of x86 for things to suddenly make a switch because the Linux & Windows scenes aren't under an iron grip like MacOS is by Apple, so a unified and industry wide push will never happen - it's inherently a trickle adoption, if at all.
At some point arm will be so efficient, it will easily receive all new releases and be able to easily emulate x86 for all old releases without any penalty. It’s an inevitable future!
Who you talking to?
Not unless Windows for arm geht's better
This.
Also if that happens I want a new folding phone that runs windows for arm lol
I saw a headline in my tech feed last week that Microsoft is putting a lot of eggs into the Arm basket, meaning that a proper windows version for arm is on the horizon. Granted we have all heard this before, but seeing as how the industry is truly moving that way, I don't see how MS can survive if they don't.
Now that some portion is moving to amr/risc-v it would be a good time to move to linux support. Afterall soft.companies need to recompile. Full support to linux, would demolish MS and Apple.
Best of both, would be to have both arm/risc and x86 on same system and with some software, use the corresponding processor for you app (like a hardware "rosetta" for compatibility).
Apparently, Windows 12 will be subscription-based. I wouldn't be surprised if this will cause a mass exodus of Windows users migrating to Linux.
Dual CPU arch sounds like a very interesting concept. Similar to having a discrete GPU and an integrated GPU to minimize power consumption while not gaming. Not sure how the two cpu would worth together on the same bus... They might have to run on separate bus with their own RAM because of how they work.
If ARM were to come to framework, would it be possible to run MacOS on em?
Until I got the AMD board I was totally on board the ARM train but the power efficiency it has is good enough that I'm happy with it. When doing light tasks its basically a Macbook Air while having the compatibility x86 has so I don't have to worry about that.
I dunno, my wife's MacBook air gets like 15hr of battery life and my framework MAYBE 4.5, both doing "light tasks." They aren't even close.
I disagree; this is hypothetical and should go beyond performance. There are many, many examples of technically superior processors being limited by software support. Will we be locked to a specific boot process? Will there be drivers and support? Qualcomm is particularly known for holding drivers close to their chest.
To be clear, I've previously posted that it would be cool to see an ARM board, but so far the ARM vendors haven't really delivered much supporting an open and consistent system, and there aren't any prospects for it, either.
I don't believe in the ARM hype. Hopefully RISC-V comes along and leapfrogs it.
I posted this in another comment but wanted to expand on it in a direct reply;
It's worth noting that a big problem with ARM is it's not one unified architecture. x86-64 has both the problem and advantage that there are more than one manufacturer of CPU's, but all of them are boxed into being compatible with Intel. This isn't true with ARM; while the CPU architecture itself is nominally the same, individual vendors are free to implement that standard in myriad ways with myriad support chips that they can pick and choose or develop themselves. Something written for NVidia ARM won't run on Qualcomm and vice versa, and neither will run on Mac. Unless stricter standards are wrapped around the architecture we'll never see a true "generic ARM architecture" system. But that'll never happen beacause it's a violation of the terms of the agreements that the fabs signed with ARM.
If a single vendor came along with an architecture design for ARM CPU that everyone liked and that vendor allowed other manufacturers to create compatible designs then we could see that standard appear. Maybe Framework could be that vendor... but right now they're FAR too small with FAR to small pockets to develop an architecture of this magnitude. It'd have to be adaptable to laptops, desktops, datacenter, embedded... you name it. This would require a company with deep pockets and a LOT of engineers on staff. NVidia has both of those but is NEVER going to publish a standard so that Qualcomm can create a competing CPU. Apple's not going to open their architecture up either for the exact same reason.
intel METEOR LAKE is launching in December and it is a mix of ARM and x86
Microsoft has been trying to push ARM for over a decade now. It's been a flop every single time. This time may turn out differently ... or not. I sure as heck wouldn't hold off a purchase because of it.
Since the entire PC market is cratering right now I'm not sure anything will happen quickly and it might be a few years before hardware/software makers feel a bit more emboldened to invest in new platforms. Not to mention the fact that the likes of the Snapdragon X Elite has not really been rigorously tested in the market so there might be some wrinkles that manifest and need ironing out. I take all the hype with a big grain of salt.