this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023

197 points (98.5% liked)

Europe

8324 readers

1 users here now

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out [email protected]

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

197

Far-right German legislator arrested after 'Sieg Heil' salutes heard (www.reuters.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

33 comments fedilink hide all child comments

all 35 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 102 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Nazi of Nazi Party doing Nazi things. Shocking.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago

More and more people voting for thr Nazi parties because they do Nazi things...

The "Freie Wähler" which is the Nazi party of Bavaria and probably will be part of the government got an increase in votes as a former teacher uncovered their leader to haven written political pamphlets demanding another holocaust and former class mates saying he made Hitler salutes and "jokes" about jews, when visiting a former concentration camp.

Now the bavarian state attorneys are investigating the teacher for bringing up the Nazi history of that parties leader.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I wish this kind of law could spread to other countries. Especially in North America.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago (2 children)

BuT My FrEe SpEeCh???

[–] [email protected] 31 points 9 months ago

Yeah, no. This is a threat to free speech. Et shouldn't tolerate intolerance.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Only Communism gets that treatment, fascism is the M.O.

[+] [email protected] -36 points 9 months ago (3 children)

You mean mostly in the US? Canada does not have free speech, and anything inciting is illegal.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 9 months ago

Canada does have free speech. Intolerance isn't free speech. Fascism isn't free speech. It's a threat to free speech.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Canada has free speech, just like Germany, the US or many other countries.

Free speech does not mean you cannot ever be punished for anything you say. There is no country in the world where this would be the case.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Much of this is semantics but if you look at the legal texts Germany doesn't have free speech (freie Rede) but freedom of opinion (Meinungsfreiheit). There's a lot of restrictions that don't exist under usual free speech legislations (insult, incitement, etc), but also protections that don't exist elsewhere, like true statement of fact being a water-tight defence against accusations of libel.

[+] [email protected] -18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Try denying the Holocaust in Canada or Germany, versus say the U.S.

I live in Canada and I prefer our regulated form of free speech, but it's not US free speech.

And if you weren't so enraged by thinking I'm an american saying that the US is the only land of the free speech, you would have seen that I was making the dudes, and Germany's point. He's asking to bring those laws here, but they already exists. Just not in the US

You can be pedantic and argue semantics, we all know what kind of free speech we are talking about here.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Your freedom stops at the exact moment, it limits other people's freedom. There may be exceptions, e.g. talking shit about someone vs. talking about facts. Freedom isn't unlimited and shouldn't be. If you think otherwise, where do we stop? Why is my freedom to randomly murder other people not granted by the state and why do I get in prison for doing it? I have the freedom to do as I please and no-one should stop me!

[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

You're being dumb. I didn't invent the US' definition of free speech. Go argue with them.

And you're onto freedom of murder there, I think you're a little lost.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

You can be pedantic and argue semantics

The irony.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There's no irony. The US justice system literally does not have protections against hate speech, like Canada and Germany.

Arguing that Germany and Canada's laws are also free speech is pedantic. We know very well what the US definition of free speech is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The US has limitations on it as well, they just draw the line a little further back than others, while you claim that this makes it somehow superior over others.

Arguing that Germany and Canada’s laws are also free speech is pedantic.

I start to think that you don't actually know the meaning of pedantic.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Youre not reading any of this right. I even said in a previous comment I'm not American, and wouldn't live under that free speech. I'm Canadian and fine with our form of free speech. The original thread is some dude saying we should bring these German laws to NA. And all i said is that they are in NA (Canada) just not in the US.

Half of you are arguing I think the US is superior, and the other half is saying Canada has as much free speech as anyone else. Too bad none of you can read.

And it's pedantic to pretend I'm talking about free speech in general, when everyone knows the US has a specific meaning for free speech not shared by Canada or Germany. Maybe you just looked up "pedantic" and put all your effort into reading that while leaving none for this thread.

Go argue with this dude that everyone actually has FrEE sPeEECh and tell me that's not pedantic. You know what he means

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

In the US you can't say certain things about your president. There is no complete and absolute free speech anywhere.

[+] [email protected] -48 points 9 months ago (8 children)

So you can decide what's allowed to be said and what's not? What happens if it does come and all the old people in office flatout ban any mention of gayness and you get thrown in prison for it?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago (1 children)

First off, fuck you and your bad faith argument. Second, if I get thrown in jail for supporting gay rights, I'm fine with that, because I know I'm doing the right thing.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

There is this little thing called "human rights" that's at odds with someone doing something like that. Of course, if your legislation only recognises fReEdOm oF sPeEcH, and not so much the Universal Decaration of Human Rights, things like that can happen.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

There are laws on what you can say. Its not allowed to insult someone. And its not allowed to insult ethnicities. Basically the same like every other freedom right: it end where the freedom of another person starts. So no, it wouldn't be possible to ban any mention of gayness.

On the other hand, laws don't fully protect you from this. The US has a very wide understanding of freedom of speech and at the same time has a 'don't say gay' bill.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

Wouldn't that mean that intolerance has won and there is no more free speech?

I don't understand your argument.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Actually, being a Nazi is a political choice and means being intolerant toward minorities. Meanwhile, being gay is not a political choice, it doesn't harm anyone, and if you were gay you can't "stop being gay" out of spite.

These differences are fundamental.

... and I'm quoting/ paraphrasing some Antifa thinker whose name I have forgotten. Sorry Internet!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

That'd be unconstitutional.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This is the best summary I could come up with:

BERLIN, Oct 30 (Reuters) - A legislator with the far-right Alternative for Germany party was arrested on Monday on charges including displaying forbidden totalitarian symbols, with neighbours of his fraternity complaining of often hearing the Nazi "Sieg Heil" victory salute.

Newly elected Daniel Halemba, 22, was due to take up his seat in the Bavarian regional parliament later on Monday.

A national conversation that is increasingly dominated by discussion of migration has helped the AfD to a series of strong electoral showings far beyond its old heartlands in the post-industrial East, with voters seemingly unperturbed by its rightward drift.

The party and its youth wing are under observation in several states, with prominent figures like lead European Parliament candidate Maximilian Krah comparing immigration to colonialism and stating that "oriental landgrabs" lead to "sexual abuse of European girls".

Halemba, who joined the fraternity as a law student in Wuerzburg, has named Bjoern Hoecke, leader of the AfD's far-right wing, as his political role model.

Germany's fraternities, many of which date back to the country's first unification in the 19th century, are notorious for their conservative, often nationalistic philosophy.

The original article contains 340 words, the summary contains 187 words. Saved 45%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!