this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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Asklemmy

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Not just speaking technically but economically. As user number mount up their post is just going to add up. I know instaces may distribute user, but server space isn't going to go down for anyone. It just seems like built to fall.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy is setup quite ok to scale users and traffic, since the users are (theoretically) distributed over many instances. In reality it doesn't work out perfectly, since people generally are more likely to join the biggest instances, so there's quite an imbalance there.

But what's worse is content replication. As soon as an user requests to look at a community for the first time, the whole community will get completely replicated on that user's instance. So any decently sized instance will pretty much replicate almost all communities, at least all that have content.

There is no scaling or storage balancing mechanic here. Even if no user ever touches that replicated community again, it will continue to be replicated, will fetch all new posts/comments and store them in the instance.

There is also currently no workaround to this (like there is for users/traffic, which you can just tell to join a different instance).

So if Lemmy ever gets to the point where gigabytes of data gets posted every day (which is only about 1000 pictures a day) storage demand will get so high, that hosting an instance will be seriously costly, which will probably lead to instances without any kind of cash flow shutting down, which will in turn lead to more users and thus traffic on the remaining instances.

I guess, that's one of the biggest technical (and conceptual) roadblocks that need to be addressed if Lemmy ever grows that big.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As the project evolves, there will be fixes for that kind of problem, it is not an immediate problem.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Hopefully. Because right now this is not a simple bug but engrained in the core concept of how Lemmy works.

[โ€“] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is there a feature to migrate users from one instance to another ?

I think it will be important when some instances will shut down. As long as people can move, then I think we can spread out the load.

I know my instance is handling the load very well and I'm really grateful for it.

[โ€“] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Account migration is planned, at least partially, for the next release IIRC

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

There is a program I used to transfer my subscriptions and settings to a different instance.

https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim

[โ€“] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i think the resources youre referring to are easily, fluidly handled and there should be no long term concern as strategies are developed to handle those resources. server space can be recycled, caches cleared, etc.

youre not wrong in that storage is a concern, but it is one of the cheaper components from my POV running a full instance.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Without ad revenue, I think server bill will pille up quick. I wish we could have insight from someone running instance.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'm running an instance, on local home fiber that I'm already paying for (30โ‚ฌ/m around 700Mb up for real, 2x2.5Gb down theoretical) so no problem today, at all.

Don't make the error thinking today's tech will linger, we will most probably have better and cheaper hardware in the future, but also smarter algorithms dealing with it all, remember it's a first try and can only get better.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

i think the only sustainable model is having a donation process built into the site. its very successful in other platforms.

its that or ads. no one wants that.

my storage costs are currently < 1/10th of the total o f my other costs. sitting at $1.00/day on one of the most expensive providers. my server has 12 users

running a full cdn, cloudfront, smtp, etc.

[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just purge stuff older than X if storage becomes an issue and make people use image hosts outside of lemmy

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm more of an archivist, belive that will cause loss of many meaningfull conversation and information.

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Economically, I'd say yes. You can get a vServer for like 10โ‚ฌ per month and it'll have something like 200GB of storage and more than enough computing power to run lemmy. Text is small so only posting many pictures/videos could be a problem. But 10โ‚ฌ/$ is kinda affordable even for a single person and the storage should last you quite a bit. Even if you share the instance with a few of your friends.

And you could even have a community or non-profit pay for a larger vServer and ask everyone to contribute a bit of money. I'd be surprised if you needed more than say $3 per month and person. (probably less?)

So economically, I'd say it's easily doable.

Technically, depends on what the developers do. There are still quite some issues to fix. And I'd consider caching and how easy it is to set up an instance for your community more technical problems.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Anything is possible with enough work and proper planning.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hope so. I'm definitely telling people about it.