this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
782 points (78.8% liked)

Memes

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[–] [email protected] 213 points 1 year ago (13 children)
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[–] [email protected] 152 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The bottom picture isn't accurate, I live on a reservation that isn't listed.

If there's one mistake I notice immediately there's definitely more.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

Additionally, most of Oklahoma is still various reservation lands. That was a recent court ruling, so I suspect this is a few years old.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's a ton missing. The point still stands, but the bottom map is more like "places that are 70%+" indigenous people, rather than a comprehensive list. Is mislabeled to make a point, which is a stupid thing to do.

[–] [email protected] 125 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My favorite part is not being able to read the font whatsoever.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Pretty sure this is saved from an attachment from a forwarded email of a scan of a photo copy of a mimeograph.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Im gonna fax this to my group chat

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's ok, this map of native American lands is definitely outdated. The Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) lands are much smaller than it should be. As that's the only tribal name I can actually read, I imagine it's a similar story for the other tribes.

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[–] Tb0n3 65 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Yeah, you can do the same for Russia, China, most European countries. Basically the entirety of Africa.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (14 children)

How's the genocide of a whole continent "average history"? The magnitude of destruction in the Americas is not common and this downplay of a continent-wide genocide is annoying.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Because there are other examples of continent wide genocide.

Humans are the fucking worst and it isn't unique to one area

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

But you and I did NOT. I see a lot of people online who can't make the distinction.

EDIT: Thanks for replies, all. Some good conversation here

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago (14 children)

Of course I’m gonna assume good faith from you here, but I feel like some people boil down issues like this to “well I mean I didn’t do it so stop complaining”, and that’s wildly reductive and irresponsible at minimum.

Arguing the situation in this way sidesteps the uncomfortable and inconvenient reality that the United States is yet still occupying native land, whether it be Hawai’i, Alaska, or the contiguous territories. Yes it’s entirely possible that mine or your ancestors didn’t perpetuate these things as immigration is and has always been ongoing, but the point everyone misses is that we are still here.

I couldn’t possibly imagine belittling natives for acknowledging the fact that their land was taken from them by force. Some real colonialist shit.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I feel you, and also acknowledge it is a hairy subject on a grand scale.

I also try to frame the issue in the actual, real moment. I try my damndest to do as little harm as humanly possible to anyone. Should I be forced to give money to someone affected? Land? Should I be punished?

Who benefits? A grandson of someone displaced? A great great grandson? Whole family trees? How do you make shit like this right after so much time?

Mostly, I'm trying to encourage thought and discussion. Fundamentally, I think people should be judged on their own merits and actions, not their lineage.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That will always be an issue until the US government actually has real communication and cooperation with native people.

I don’t necessarily think that citizens of occupied land are automatically responsible for the past actions of a government (not to say that’s what you implied), but said government that committed the atrocities is. As far as the other part of the equation, I suppose the beneficiaries should be determined by the natives themselves.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The way I understand it is that even if we omit any ancestral blame for what happened, the Native Americans are still dealing with the impact while European descendants benefit from it. It's kind of like if I went to school with a very bright kid that was horribly abused and kicked out into the streets, so they performed poorly and dropped out, allowing me to get into the best college possible and have a great career. Why should I have any compassion for this kid if I didn't abuse them myself? Why would I help them get housed and into college? Why would I even acknowledge that they were abused and forced out of their home? I'm one that earned it by working hard to get into college and graduate.

This omits the possibility that this kid might have outperformed me and taken the college spot, leaving me to be in a worse off situation.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (10 children)

That doesn't mean everyone living on stolen land gets a pass just because they weren't the ones to steal it. They have an obligation to make it right.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (10 children)

How do you propose this be done? FAIRLY?

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Define "make it right". And for who, exactly?

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Never forget? In some states it's downright illegal to teach kids that complex, sophisticated and civilized societies existed here before white people showed up.

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[–] rambling_lunatic 50 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Fair point, but not really a meme.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

That's too bad, couldn't find one in jpeg?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Meanwhile the UK 1707-1914:

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Are there any good resources to learn more about the vast tribes the North American continent was home to? I've always felt ignorant to the rich history and connection with the Earth that the tribes held and passed down.

Not sure about the accuracy of the top map, but it looks like that format could be a great educational opportunity.

On a lighthearted note, if you're from the bay, give Café Ohlone a visit! I had the pleasure of meeting the two head chefs at an event where they cooked for the audience. They showed how candy cap mushrooms, acorn flour, and a duck egg could be incorporated into a brownie mix. I can't speak for the actual restaurant, but it was delicious what they made :)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unfortunately, not really for the majority of tribes. What we so know is that by the time Europeans had made real efforts to expand westward in North America, The Great Dying had already killed 75-90% of the native population.

Basically, North America had already endured around 200 years of civilization and population collapse starting in 1450. So even what the tribes know about themselves has to be viewed in the perspective of a people who had just lost 90% of their population in a few generations.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Check out the book, 'An Indigenous People's History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.'

It's claims are backed up w/ extensive citations.

[–] ZzyzxRoad 9 points 1 year ago

The Canary Effect is an amazing documentary about the genocide of Indigenous peoples in North America. It is free on YT. It was where I first learned how brutal the reality was and how devastating to the population. It also shows how it meets the UN definition of genocide. Amazing how we are raised in the US and this is not only ignored in history class, but is instead framed as Indigenous people living happily in Spanish missions and having Thanksgiving with pilgrims.

If you get a chance to read about John Trudell, he had a fascinating life. He was the spokesman for the American Indian Movement when they occupied Alcatraz in protest of the US breaking their land treaty. The government did not stop terrorizing him and his family after that. There's also an amazing documentary about him but it's been a long time since I've seen it. I think it may just be called "John Trudell."

Both of these will make you walk away angry though.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

This isn't a meme and should be removed but yes agreed this is like common north america histly knowledge

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

For those interested, native-land.ca is a collective project to map the ancestral territories of Indigenous peoples.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Highly recommend reading the Red Deal, which is written by Indigenous socialists on what they think decolonisation should entail.

https://therednation.org/about-maisha/

Also keep in mind that every Indigenous community has different views on colonialism and the land and sovereignty issue. Some really just want to be left alone on their historical territory, others actively want to work with non-Indigenous people living on and around their ancestral land, and everything in between with tons of nuance. There is no singular "Indigenous attitide" on this though there does tend to be similar schools of thought. The most important thing in decolonization is to listen to all of them and respect their wishes.

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