this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023

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submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 11 months ago (2 children)

For people like me wondering:

The Katyn massacre was a series of mass executions of nearly 22,000 Polish military officers and intelligentsia prisoners of war carried out by the Soviet Union, specifically the NKVD in April and May 1940. Wikipedia

[–] CookieJarObserver 13 points 11 months ago

Not freed, just put under new management.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago

When OP conveniently forgets history under the guise of a joke. Germany was divided in two, remember?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Was there not a East Berlin and Berlin wall?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

The Soviets were the boogeyman to the Germans aswel. Taking people in the dead of night, evicting farmers from there land and replacing them with communist sympathizers, stealing, all that nasty stuff.

I remember reading a diary of a German officer who discribed the Soviets during the first few years of the occupation as "rag tag", no standard dress code or discipline which is pretty funny given current events

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

The Soviets killed people who tried to escape.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Poland was literally shifted to the West to satisfy Stalin's fetish for buffer zones. They were betrayed by the USSR too during the Warsaw Uprising and later abandoned by the West after the War. If I am a Polish citizen, I would be digging up gramp's Mosin from the backyard now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Based

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

OP is retarted lmao

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago

Wester occupation? What a joke, even russian propaganda hasn't thought of such clowning, and they are a whole circus

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean it probably also had to do with the role each nation played in the war.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No. USA good, communism bad. Didnt you read the meme? /s

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Which country here was commmnist? The USSR was never able to move beyond state capitalism on the roadmap to communism.

[–] mindbleach 0 points 11 months ago

The part where they were "on the roadmap to communism" is what makes them "a communist country."

Every country that's been "on the roadmap to communism" somehow gets stuck at the dictatorship phase.

Maybe having a dictatorship phase is a stupid fucking idea.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"It wasn't REAL communism!"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't get this, there's an effective definition you can use, socialist or marxist-leninist, but you insist on calling them communist which they didn't even call themselves

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What political party was in charge of the ussr?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What is the government of North Korea called?

[–] mindbleach 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This only works if you have counterexamples.

North Korea's giant-air-quotes "democracy" is different from every other actual democracy.

"Communist" government are all the failure modes y'all insist don't count. Every single one.

You don't have to stop advocating for the utopian end goal, to acknowledge what's happened, in practice, in the name of that pursuit. Unless you want to grant to libertarian jerkoffs that without total deregulation for perfectly informed consumers, "capitalism has never been tried."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's because north Korea is a monarchy and not a democracy.

So far pretty much every government calling itself communist has been a dictatorship with state capitalism. None of them have even tried giving power to the workers which is like the core point. Vanguard parties are just a means to power for yourself draped in communist aesthetics. Nazies did that too, doesn't make them communist.

Libertarian means something else outside the US just FYI. True free market capitalism would exist just long enough for a corporation to seize enough power that it would be the defacto government so in that sense yea, pure capitalism hasn't been tried and really shouldn't.

[–] mindbleach 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

True free market capitalism would exist just long enough for a corporation to seize enough power that it would be the defacto government so in that sense yea, pure capitalism hasn’t been tried and really shouldn’t.

Yeah, if an approach predictably leads to collapse, it doesn't really matter what the goal is. Whether the goal has "been tried" doesn't change what would happen if people tried to try.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And I have never wanted to put a dictator in charge who really likes the colour red. What I advocate is worker control over the means of production, think coop businesses.

[–] mindbleach 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Which is totally different from what prior revolutionaries advocated. Apparently. What they wanted was communism... and what they were attempting to get was communism... but none of that counts because it went wrong somehow.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yet their actions never indicated giving workers power which is like the core principal of communism.

As I said: They called themselves a communist party for support just like the nazies were a national socialist party.

[–] mindbleach 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fascists adopt whatever labels sound good. That's not the same thing as people honestly trying and things going wrong.

Are you saying every single communist movement that's ever risen to national influence was a false flag operation? That not just once or twice, but every time a leftist movement successfully established power, they were either complete frauds like the god-damned Nazis, or so compromised from within that they might as well be?

Because that would still reflect terribly on any movement saying the same things as those efforts.

My guy. I'm the one saying efforts toward communism have a terrible track record of entering a failure mode, to the point it makes perfect sense for "communist countries" to be a label for the dictatorships resulting from let's-do-a-communism-whoops revolutions. I get to say 'if you want that goal don't take that path.' But what you're describing sounds like condemning anyone with that goal, since it seems there are zero examples of anyone getting anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Every movement creating a vanguard party, yes. Those revolutions never even attempted to give power to workers so failing to even attempt the core principal of communism is quite telling. You can claim they were communist but if you look at the principals of communism then those countries allign more with fascism than communism.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

Had no clue looking at the name of a country or the party in charge was a substitute for politically analyzing a country. Also, that party literally said the Soviet Union hadn't reached communism which is obvious if you know what communism is supposed to mean.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Here in Romania, we're exactly like the Poles. There's deep, deep national trauma related to Russia ( even before the USSR ).

However, it's not the same everywhere in the former soviet block, places like Bulgaria, Hungary or Slovakia are far more torn on the issue.