this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2023

18 points (84.6% liked)

THE POLICE PROBLEM

2351 readers

37 users here now

The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

All this is a path to a police state.

In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

RULES

① Real-life decorum is expected. Please don't say things only a child or a jackass would say in person.

② If you're here to support the police, you're trolling. Please exercise your right to remain silent.

③ Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.

④ Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

Please also abide by the instance rules.

It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.

♦ ♦ ♦

ALLIES

• [email protected]

• r/ACAB

• r/BadCopNoDonut/

• Randy Balko

• The Civil Rights Lawyer

• The Honest Courtesan

• Identity Project

• MirandaWarning.org

♦ ♦ ♦

INFO

• A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

• Adultification

• Cops aren't supposed to be smart

• Don't talk to the police.

• Killings by law enforcement in Canada

• Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

• Killings by law enforcement in the United States

• Know your rights: Filming the police

• Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

• Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

• Police lie under oath, a lot

• Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

• Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

• Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

• So you wanna be a cop?

• When the police knock on your door

♦ ♦ ♦

ORGANIZATIONS

• Black Lives Matter

• Campaign Zero

• Innocence Project

• The Marshall Project

• Movement Law Lab

• NAACP

• National Police Accountability Project

• Say Their Names

• Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Braverman accused of trying to ‘derail’ Chris Kaba case (www.opendemocracy.net)

submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

15 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The home secretary backed police and ordered a review of armed units after officers protested over a murder charge

Background on this for non-UK people -

Black guy shot by armed policeman whilst sitting in his own car.
Policeman arrested for murder, released on bail.
Last weekend armed police 'strike' by dropping their weapons because one of their own has been charged with murder

As per usual the victim is being forgotten in all of this while it turns into a massively corrupt political game.

all 18 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you’re feeling chatty sometime, I’d be curious to know your perspective on The Met’s ‘ordinary’ cops — the ones who patrol without guns. Maybe being gunless makes it at least hypothetically possible that they’re not all bastards?

I don't think guns come into the equation. Police in the UK don't patrol with guns, they're only used for special operations. It just means that any violence tends to be more physical and less fatal.

I think that the majority of individuals who join the police force are decent people who want to uphold the law. However, the culture is still one that closes ranks when outsiders criticise, has a boy's club mentality with some (sexist jokes, racist jokes, probably descends into more than jokes) which we've seen from leaked WhatsApp chats. It's this culture which can and does poison minds and that's where the 'being bastards' can come from.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Thanks again for the further into :) and imagine my surprise at learning that even without guns, cops are still bastards.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't know how things work in the UK, but most of the Kaba killing feels familiar — the cops' highhandedness and entitlement, and the threat to stop doing their job (which most folks find terrifying, but sounds sweet to me), and the obedience of politicians like your Home Sec Braverman.

Only some small sliver of UK cops carry guns, so they're probably seen (especial by themselves) as super-elite cops.

Can I ask about "NX121" though? Does every Brit get such anonymity when charged with crimes, and get released on bail when the crime is murder — or are such courtesies only for police?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Can I ask about “NX121” though? Does every Brit get such anonymity when charged with crimes, and get released on bail when the crime is murder — or are such courtesies only for police?

Depends on the circumstances with the anonymity. I'm not a lawyer but the 'bail for cold blooded murder' sounds very much like a cop privilege thing. If it was someone else they'd be too busy beating him up in the cells to offer him bail.

They definitely see themselves as special because Daddy lets them play with guns. One of my friends dad's at school was a PC and told us he steered cleared of guys like that because they weren't interested in crime fighting they were interested in playing with toys and getting people to call them 'Sir'.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Thanks.

Next question: The Home Secretary's duties include overseeing all law enforcement in England — is that correct?

If so, this is particularly heinous. She's tweeting support for a cop charged with murder, peeing in the pool of public opinion.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yep. That is correct, the Home Secretary is in charge of Police. This specific one we have now is a particular control freak. She was forced to resign from the same position in the last government for sending official documents from her personal Gmail.

For more on her racist, right-wing views, her current solution to immigrants making their way to the UK on small boats is to... ship them off to Rwanda. Since she's not allowed to do that, Plan B keeping them on a huge barge, which is costing the tax on payer more than the hotels they were housed in before.

She's big on culture war stuff ('Police should be spending less time dancing with trans people at carnivals and more time fighting crime', that sort of stuff). She's seen as being the strongest contender for being a 'Right' leader of the party (as opposed to a centre)

Anyway, yes, this is the woman who is now in charge of this situation...

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wikipedia says "member of the Conservative Party," so I suspected as much.

Thanks for the explanations.

If you're feeling chatty sometime, I'd be curious to know your perspective on The Met's 'ordinary' cops — the ones who patrol without guns. Maybe being gunless makes it at least hypothetically possible that they're not all bastards?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I know I'm wild late to the party, but I'm interested in this topic too. I have siblings in the UK and their experiences with law enforcement have been pretty minimal/less aggressive compared to mine. Any chance of starting a Matrix chat or something for this ~~instance~~ community?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I've never used matrix but sure!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you want to make a Matrix, by golly make a Matrix and make it marvelous. I won't be involved but I'll root for you. :)

Me, I'm an old fart and a Luddite, on the internet only because I saw the usefulness of it. Haven't seen usefulness in anything since, though — no smart phone, no smart watch, no smart house, no Roomba™, and I still read books on paper. No Matrix for me, thanks.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Now I wasn't there, and I suspect OP wasn't either, but the narrative that he was sitting in his own car is disputed (as far as I know) and he may in fact have been using said car to try and ram police vehicles and officer who were operating a blockade to stop him.

Armed response are few and far between so aren't deployed lightly. If they were there it was at least under the pretext that the subject may pose a threat to life.

Again, I wasn't there and may be the cover story. But given the current climate around police shooting I would be surprised if the shot was a decision that was taken lightly.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I mean yeah, I wasn't there. I'm sure there's a lot going on with this we don't know about as well but the narrative that certainly seems most likely from the way it's been handled is that 'cock up was made'. Maybe the unnamed gunman is the fall guy. Or maybe he was trigger happy.

Either way this is being sent upstairs so far it's now being handled by the government's press office to all intents and purposes. Which to me speaks volumes.

We're working with no facts, but if they have facts that make it look less like they just shot the guy why the prosecution for murder. Not manslaughter?