this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
471 points (92.7% liked)

Technology

59689 readers
3173 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 254 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do not believe their lies. Do not accept their token gestures. Abandon them. Let them burn. If you tolerate this your children will be next. Trust no one.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Great quote there and totally right.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 192 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Developers remain critical of this latest statement from Unity. "There wasn't any 'confusion'," said Trent Kusters of Jumplight Odyssey studio League of Geeks. "In fact, the exact opposite is the concerning issue here; That we all, very clearly, understood the devastating impact and anti-developer sentiment of your new pricing model far better than you ever did (or cared to) before rolling it out."

That's the exact point. The apology is a joke.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Indeed. They had the whole chart showing exactly what would be paid by who. Their original post was designed not to be confusing and it wasn't.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 180 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Good God, what an arsehole.

We apologize for the confusion...

Confusion? No, there was no confusion. You announced a policy that was terrible, but there was nothing confusing about it, it was just stupid. I wasn't at all confused you condescending twat, I fully understood what was being announced, as did everyone else, hence the backlash.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago

The article says it best:

Developers remain critical of this latest statement from Unity. "There wasn't any 'confusion'," said Trent Kusters of Jumplight Odyssey studio League of Geeks. "In fact, the exact opposite is the concerning issue here; That we all, very clearly, understood the devastating impact and anti-developer sentiment of your new pricing model far better than you ever did (or cared to) before rolling it out."

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We were confused about how much backlash there would be. We didn't think it would hurt our bottom line this much. Sorry for the confusion.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 161 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

They are implementing the "Anchor High" plan.

  1. Come out with a ridiculously high number
  2. Take the back lash
  3. Issue an apology, claim you are "listing to the team, partners, etc" <---- We are here
  4. Release a "revised" plan, which is really what you wanted all along
  5. Profit (quite literally)

I'm willing to bet they are angling for an acquisition, and trying to bump up their value to get a higher number.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Precisely what I'm talking about. They can afford to do so, since they lost the trust of the user about 2 statements from the CEO ago.

And not to go too deep into it, but how the hell are you going to create a brand new pricing scheme in only "a couple of days", without already having a draft of it ready? Don't you wanna check in with your lawyer? Your CFO? This shit must take more than 2 days to do.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They want apple to buy them. Apple can't really lean on unreal at this point since the epic lawsuit. So unity is the next viable option. They want apple to buy them and/or they wanted a piece of every download on apples phones/vr.

Apples last announcement is telegraphing a shift towards gaming on some level. Unity is being opportunistic albeit tone-deaf AF.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 119 points 1 year ago (1 children)

'confusion'. Yeah, right. Not a single person was confused. You went for the cash grab and it blew up in your face.

Now you're going to go for slightly less cash grab and because it's 'better' and 'we listened' everyone is supposed to just accept it. Been here before..

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] gravitas_deficiency 98 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That’s not an apology.

And if we’re talking about apologies and corrective action: the only real way forward is a completely fresh executive team at Unity. Anything short of that means they’re simply going to try this all again in a slightly different fashion once focus on their clusterfuck dies down.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 87 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They went for a retroactive pricing change.

Imagine that you start a game project (which will cost you years and a lot of $$$ to develop) and at any point Unity just arbitrarilly changes the conditions (which can be of any kind, not just extra charges) that apply to your game, after you're too far into development to feasibly replace Unity, and do it retroactivelly, so after your game is already out it can still get impacted by it.

Suddenly a totally viable project might become unviable or, worse, an active drain on your company's finances or even your own (i.e. your company and, depending on how you structured it, even you yourself can go bankrupt), and all of that based on the fickle wishes of a higher up in Unity.

At this point it makes no business sense whatsoever to choose Unity: there is way, WAY, WAY too much risk involved by choosing it (new charges that apply retroactivelly as this one can literally kill your company) and at the same times there are viable alternatives out there without such risks.

For any project not yet deeply tied to Unity, from the day they came up with a retroactive change to their pricing, the obvious, clear as day, choice from a business point of view became to not use anything from Unity, even for shitty shit asset-flipping "near zero investment" projects.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

They went for a retroactive pricing change.

Which in some countries could also be illegal.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 year ago (3 children)

We apologize for the confusion and angst the runtime fee policy we announced on Tuesday caused. We are listening, talking to our team members, community, customers, and partners, and will be making changes to the policy. We will share an update in a couple of days. Thank you for your honest and critical feedback.

Allow me to translate:

We're now publishing the terms that we were actually going for from the very beginning. We've always known that the flaming bag of shit that we laid on your doorstep was unreasonable. If it worked, it worked, but if it didn't, it can stand in contrast to the new less shit terms that you're either supposed to agree to or rewrite your whole game. Not like our PR was great before this gambit. What have we to lose?

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago

I mean, they have a lot to lose. There are strong alternatives. Unreal and Godot are at the doorstep. Godot doesn't take anything at all, Unreal takes, but in a reasonable manner and it's of course on 3D a lot more powerful and also offers an asset store.

The games already developed and deep into development are unlikely to jump, but future games will have a huge argument against Unity now. Unreal could completely snap their necks now by putting into writing that they never do such move.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 year ago (8 children)

This seems to be a case of start with a horrible plan that they know will make everyone angry only to roll it back to a plan that still sucks but isn't quite as bad to try to reduce the sting. The thing is, I don't think their customers are that stupid.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They underestimate their customers. They keep forgetting they're business to business, not business to customer.

Developers are other businesses, even if they're a business with an employee of one, although often they are small but not tiny teams. The relationship that they have with unity is a business relationship and it can end at any time should that relationship cease to be productive, for we don't have random undying loyalty to one platform, that wouldn't be financially sensible.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 82 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you believe it and keep using Unity for new projects, you're kind of a sucker.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

“Well I’m sorry that you feel that way.”

That’s how this comes off. The ultimate non-apology. Fuck off, Unity.

Edit: something to consider is that Unity intentionally made this change as terrible as it is so that they could put out this apology, and roll things back to where their main goal was the entire time. It’s kind of like when you list your house for a high price so that it gets negotiated down to the price range you wanted from the outset. Don’t be shocked if Unity changes this a bit but keeps it essentially the same. It means they can then reflect on history and go “hey, remember that time we listened to the developers?” while still fucking them over.

They seem to think we’re all stupid.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 74 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Reputation is a perishable commodity. It is very hard to replenish it once gone.

Xwitter and Reddit understood it the hard way. Even if Unity goes back to exactly where they were before this ruckus - people will think twice before trusting them again.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I don't think Xtr and Reddit understood anything

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How to be a company in 2023

  1. Make a controversial move to please your shareholders without caring about your loyal customers.
  2. Don't use a proper PR team, just use the same apology template on Twitter that everyone is using.
  3. People are angry... Could anyone seen that coming? 🙈
  4. Undo some changes without addressing the root problem.
  5. ????
  6. Profit (if by profit, you mean loose every inch of respect people had about you)

Rinse & repeat, because we're all humans and we can't learn from our mistakes. Surely, this won't happen again... right?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Why do you think it was a mistake? They put themselves in the spot where taking back just the most egregious fees will be considered a victory by the users while in reality the company basically got what they were hoping for.

It's like on a Turkish bazaar when you buy a fake jersey. He will ask for 800 lira and then you talk him down to 400 and feel like a winner, but the jersey is maybe worth 100.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Nothing short of a full reversal and Unity's entire board standing down would restore the goodwill they burned.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Anyone who still uses Unity for their new projects after this would have to be completely stupid. Of course they'll jack up the pricing again as soon as they can.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago

It wasn't that they increased prices, they added new fees to things without notice, breaking some business models entirely.

They've only backed down on fees for reinstalling games after it was pointed out you could trivially cost a developer millions of dollars by running an install/uninstall script on a loop.

load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I read it, it's clearly not an apology. Companies don't ever apologise. Ever.

Nobody in charge there is sorry whatsoever, they're just looking out for their wallets.

They're busy trying to figure out the best way to spin this to get what they want. That's it.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Eh, he said the word apologize, but that's not a full apology. All they essentially did was acknowledge that they noticed the public was mad at them. A full apology includes that acknowledgment and then what they did wrong and how they're going to try to prevent it again. I doubt that last point will happen.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Too late. Everyone I know is deep into their Godot or Stride projects.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago

This after the ceo dumped shares

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Anything short of a perpetual, binding agreement to never do this type of shit again is nothing more than "we're sorry if being awesome made you idiots mad". Get fucked.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

CEO needs to step down after this

They've burned so much trust in leadership after this, and Unity is now going to be known as a sketchy platform to develop for since they've done really scummy monetization policies over night. This is extremely important if you're going to be pouring millions in budget for game development in that engine.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That wasn't an apology at all.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sorry. We're sorry. Sorry. Sorry.... Sorry~ Sorry. We're sorry. We're soary. Sorry.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] loutr 30 points 1 year ago

Sorry our awesome plan was so clever it got you confused. We'll try and make it simple for you morons next time.

Ah yes, the Macron Apology.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago

"Sorry not sorry. Here are the amended prices that we intended to change all along, but knew you'd revolt unless we did something thoroughly obnoxious first."

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago

"we are sorry you feel that way. Cope".

That's what it reads like, honestly

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The CEO of Unity was also CEO, COO, and president of EA. So, is anyone surprised?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Riccitiello

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Between this and the WotC/D&D licensing scandal, companies ought to think twice about changing terms for things that rely heavily on the more mathematically/scientifically inclined portion of the population.

They tend to be a bit more vocal about this kind of bullshit.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] coffee_poops 25 points 1 year ago

Too late, shit waffle.

load more comments
view more: next ›