As someone on HackerNews said:
I've never felt the need for any "community" for my window manager of choice
this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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Hmmm. If abuse happens, is the right idea to say that “I don’t need this community”?
I’m not sure how that HackerNews comment helps in the slightest. If my university has an obscure basket weaving community and people are getting abused in that community, should I just say “Eh we don’t actually need a basket weaving community”.
It’s also amusing to me that a commenter on a relatively obscure and niche website is complaining that that don’t need (or care about abuse that transpired on) a niche community from another website. And then this comment is echoed in yet another niche community.
"You shouldn't use this window manager because their community is toxic"
"I'm not going to interact with the community"
Seems fair enough
For real. Not everything needs to be a fucking subculture. Next they'll be saying, "The WinRAR community is toxic". Like no, your discord server is poorly moderated. The problem starts and ends there.
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I just wanted to point out that it's ridiculous to form some kind religion¹ around a wayland compositor.
Also, I don't want anybody to think I'm supporting what's happening there. I just don't really care about Hyprland's community because I'm not part of it.
¹Hyprland's discord server is named "Church of Hyprland"
Hmm, I feel like there's some nuances around Hyprland (and it's kind of window managers) that makes having a place for discussion valuable.
- Plugin development discussions
- Configuration recipes and troubleshooting (Configs for tiling wm's often are like 500-line software projects)
- ...and sometimes its just fun to chat with like-minded people who share a similar philosophy on the tools they use on their computers
I'm not a hyprland user, but I find it valuable to lurk around SwayWM communities on Discord and Reddit.
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[A trans person] joined the Discord server and made a big deal out of their pronouns [..] because they put their pronouns in their nickname and made a big deal out of them because people were referring to them as “he” [misgendering them], which, on the Internet, let’s be real, is the default.
Damn I didn't know women didn't exist on the internet! Also "making a big deal out of ones pronouns" is almost never the case, it's always just a normal request for the respect of addressing someone properly.
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the moderators of the Discord server engaged in a harassment campaign against a transgender user, including using their moderator privileges to edit the pronouns in their username from “they/she” to “who/cares”
Well, apparently those moderators care. Why else edit it?
They like to make a show like everyone on Earth is just like they are so how dare we exist differently but it's clearly just them being hateful. Idunno how bigots manage to still think they're clever and totally not insecure whilst making self-contradictory statements and raging over nonsense and trivia for hours at a time, often in spaces where they're not even welcome.
I can personally vouch for how toxic the Discord server and its moderators/admins are. Went there for support (Hyprland was crashing on startup on AMD, sway worked fine), and was told something along the lines of "if you can't figure this out you're stupid and you should stop using Linux". Figured out the issue on my own and stopped using and recommending Hyprland after that.
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this guy just learned about discord general chats lol
they're all this bad, and also they're absolutely dogshit for open source software so I have no idea why people make them
I'm in the max server limit, 100 right now, and many of those are people who treat discord as github, which is so annoying (but many projects are of questionable legality, like Dan's palace which makes and distributes completed android and vita ports of other games for free).
One time I got excited since there was announcement for the half life 2 android source port discord. I thought it was a big update or maybe a new game, but what I saw was something like:
the memes channel is for memes, not child porn
It's just discord that has these issues. Matrix or IRC don't have these problems. Discord just creates a kind of culture that fosters this stuff.
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All this over some discord server drama. I cant blame the dev for wanting to code and not waste his time moderating.
Then don't run a discord instance?
"Hey, the server is getting pretty toxic and I can't be bothered moderating it - this is no longer an official communication channel, I'm not going to be hanging out here anymore, if you need help ask in the GitHub discussion forum"
It's the developer's responsibility to moderate the discord server properly.
It's the moderation staff's responsibility. Sorry for nitpicking, I understand in this case it's likely the same people.
I just get triggered when I hear that an open source software developer should have any responsibilities at all (maybe apart from some extreme examples), and I wouldn't like this idea to stick in anyone's head.
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The guy who develops hyprland is a known transphobe, I'm surprised this is just now coming out.
That usually isn't a problem as long as they keep it to themselves and away from the community. There are many Foss developers who are like that - they don't cause a controversy. This one seems to be different and openly toxic.
Hyprland dev's response to blog post: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity
What a tone-deaf response, yikes.
Yeahhh, he's like "everything was taken out of context to smear me", he shows the context and it doesn't make him look any better.
It's a shame bc I really wanted to get into hyprland, but I won't get involved with a project that is okay harassing people for being trans.
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The final bit is interesting. Vaxry says Q (who was openly bigoted) got punished, but doesn't mention prisj (who was slightly less open about it).
#generaldoes indeed sometimes have jokes that some people might treat as "controversial".
And if you really need a place with controversial jokes, split it off from your support server or something.
I stopped using it because of a couple shitty interactions on Discord. I don't know anything about the developer himself but the company he keeps sucks. Using the word "cucked" when talking about breaks in dependencies... and being told "see if I care" when pointing out a race condition I found in initialization that caused problems with multimonitor setups.
No thanks. Sway works great. No need for eye candy.
Your first mistake was joining a Discord group for a software product. Github pages / bug-tracker or GTFO.
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Just dont interact with the community. Theres an excelent wiki that details everything.
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Who cares about the community? If it's useful and works I will use it. It's not like I'm paying for it. If the community is toxic people will not contribute to the project. If they don't need contributors they can do whatever they like.
Because it's important to call people out for their bullshit and not tacitly approve of it by keeping quiet?
IMHO calling people out for everything easily turns into vicious witch haunts and doesn't really change anything. They weren't nice to you? Don't use their software. The whole world really doesn't need to know about each alleged asshole. Not shouting at every person I disagree with is not approving of anything.
I generally agree that it's not necessary to bring unrelated problems into a space.
But this post reads like "this software is good but the community is not welcoming, I don't recommend getting into either". I think that's valid.
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It sucks that cool projects like hyprland are usually riddled with toxic weirdos that ruin it. It also sucks that there's not much to choose in the wayland space that's usable and actively developed but I refuse to use hyprland after seeing this.
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Well that's pretty bad. I just switched to hyprland and like it, but I don't want to give those people a bigger platform than what they already have... Ah shit I'll have to think about that. Why can't we have nice things that aren't made by complete assholes.
From Vaxry's response:
opinion - has no place in a serious blogpost
Sir, what do you think a BLOG is for?
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