this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2023

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Has the West Closed All Its Project Ukraine Exits? | naked capitalism (www.nakedcapitalism.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

25 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Good analysis of what options (or lack of) the west has with their commitment to killing Ukranians.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I did read a bit of that tankie garbage and this is the funniest bit I reached:

For Russia, the war is existential.

Russia can stop murdering Ukrainians at any time without anyone caring for Russian land or the existence of Russia. It's nothing more than a paranoid fantasy that anyone in "the West" would want to invade Russia. They could have just stuck to selling resources to Europe and the rest of the world, but instead they chose to attack their neighbour.

If you really build your world view on a foundation like this article you are completely lost - at least outside Russia. You might make a career in Moscow, though.

[+] [email protected] -16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's nothing more than a paranoid fantasy that Russia will invade Poland, but it seems like most people here think they will if we don't send Ukranians to their deaths..

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Can you show me where the West threatend to invade Russia? Because Russians do so regularly. Calling that "paranoid" is just willfull ignorance for the sake of being an asshole.

Same for your casual insinuation that the West is "sending Ukrainians to their deaths". The only one forcing them to fight is Russians crossing the border and murdering Ukrainians.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Invading Russia = making political inroads into their historical sphere of influence. The "existential" threat to Russia is that it loses its historic colonial outposts.

[+] [email protected] -14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sorry, can you show me where the Russians have actually threatened to invade eastern Europe since 1991?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ummm ... isn't Ukraine in eastern Europe? So, since at least 2014 they have done more than threaten.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I can show you one fairly well-known example.

I actually do get Russia having a violent response against a hostile alliance coming up right to their borders. That side of it makes sense to me. But also, NATO and EU membership was much less of a priority for Ukraine before Russia started invading their borders and killing their citizens. Once Russia has rolled their military into neighboring sovereign nations and started killing and raping and blowing up homes, I think they're forfeited their right to whine about the unfairness if their neighbors decide to join a mutual-defense alliance that can beat the shit out of them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Haha you adding that disclaimer "since 1991" is the funniest thing. Russia losing their occupation of Poland does not undo anything that happened before. But here are some examples for you to completely ignore:

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1516883853431955456

https://poland.postsen.com/news/43034/Ramzan-Kadyrov-is-raving-again-and-threatening-Poland-First-in-line-after-capturing-Kiev--News-from-the-world.html

We are already working on a plan for the demilitarization of NATO countries, and Poland is the first in the line after the capture of Kiev

We are ready to take Kyiv and NATO countries without any problems on orders. Our combat-hardened units will not be able to resist any army in the world. We have experience, arsenal, faith, patriotism, idea and truth! The West does not yet understand how strong we are

I'm sure you'll manage to find more if you care.

So why do you believe that Russia's selfimposed fear of invasion is not a paranoid delusion?

[+] [email protected] -6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh of we're just talking about random senators or TV personalities then yeah Russia has lots of people that want to restore the Soviet union. I meant from people at their MOF or MOD, or in the presidents office, people who's threats would carry weight beyond playing to domestic politics.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's cute that you try to talk it down but prominent figures in Russia are talking about invading Europe, murdering its people and eradicating cities.

And no one West of the Russian border cares one bit about moving the Russian border even a meter eastwards. The claim that Nato is a threat to Russia is a sad lie it tells itself to justify its imperialism.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You seem to be ignoring your talking heads vs the Russian ones..

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What am I ignoring? That it's a complete waste of time engaging with you because you never acknowledge that you are a liar?

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's hard to spell it out for you more clearly. There are plenty of people in the US and Europe advocating for the break up of Russia.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You still have not provided any proof for the idiotic claim that anyone wants to threatens Russia. It remains a fantasy to justify Russian imperialism, nothing more. Just like a bot you only spew more and more of your BS hoping anything would stick without ever acknowledging that you have been called out for your lies.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doubt this will keep you from being a useful idiot: https://www.eurasiareview.com/03112022-washingtons-plan-to-break-up-russia-oped/

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you trying to rebrand useful idiot to no longer mean dumbasses who repeat Moscows fairytales 😂? That'll be as successfull as Russia claiming it did not start WW2 together with the Nazis to eat up Poland.

Also your link is a fictional opinion piece by some "journalist". The comment below the article gives a great summary:

JHC this is one of the worst examples of ‘fantasy realism’ I’ve ever seen. I don’t doubt that the US motives aren’t stellar and never have been but good god man, russia has shown itself for over 400 years to be a brutal imperialist terrorist state and is slaughtering, raping, torturing Ukrainian civilians (men, women, AND children) in a godawful genocide (can’t say that word here? I don’t see a trace of it). You know damn well what would happen in occupied territories if ‘negotiations’ were carried out before russia was thoroughly kicked out of Ukraine and defeated. Putin apologist/tankie is what I see here.

So still no one in the West threatening Russian territorial integrity. (Because no one gives a shit about that crap land, all we ever wanted was to just buy your resources and let it be)

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Your chauvanism is showing 🤡

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you don't even know what that word means. And you just keep running in circles, ignoring reality.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ahh logical fallacies. Always the backup when someone loses an argument.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bro there is no argument where fallacies could have taken place. You never engaged in one and stuck to spreading your lies.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just a bit of education for you. When engaging in a discussion with someone, like you replying to my comments and me to you (that's a discussion), attacking the individual instead of the argument is called an Ad Hominem attack. Look it up. You've already lost your position and my respect, I'm just trying to help you out here.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You ignoring any arguments that don't align with your worldview while not providing any yourself is not a discussion. Also note that I don't care about the respect of a Russia apologist - to me you are just as pathetic as the nazis running around these days. Your "position" was lost from the start but you really cannot see it - or just don't want to.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

😭🤡

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Biden's polling below Trump in the US (Nov 2024), Sunak is doomed (Jan 2025), and Scholz is leading a flagging economy down the drain (Oct 2025).

Regardless of how people feel about Ukraine, Western support is not indefinite and at some point the Western powers will have to focus their efforts on domestic issues.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

You can't make this stuff up. This has to be trolling, I mean, nobody can be that dumb. Please tell me nobody can be that dumb.