This is why religion should be stamped out world wide. Faith always overrides common sense. Any rational human will tell you that killing your own daughter is abhorrent behavior.
That too, but this is more on honor culture.
Mostly this, even if it's also a thing where religion and culture have intertwined long and deep enough that people unfortunately wouldn't know where one starts and one ends.
So, let me get this straight. Muslims don’t honor kill because religion? They honor kill because they have a cultural predisposition to honor killing? I mean honestly that sounds kinda gross.
Before you say they aren’t the only ones or something. I had to answer someone else before you. So, they got all the links showing that worldwide Muslims do the heavy lifting on honor killings, and we’re talking Muslims from the Balkans, to the Middle East, to Muslims in America, and Muslims in Europe. We are talking Muslims of every color.
I would think that Muslims in very different geographical areas would have slightly different cultures, but same religion.
I think it is partially entwined as a cultural element, like priests and pedophilia, but I don't think it is written in any Islamic text that one should kill family members out of dishonor – except maybe apostasy.
I agree. From what I’ve read the Quran actually says it’s pretty bad to kill another Muslim. I’m assuming of course that most of these people have quit the faith. But too many Muslim communities in too many different parts of the world do honor killings, for honor killings to not have spread with Islam.
Which this has been such a popular topic that I started talking about it with a friend offline. His take on it was that “I feel that Islam IS the culture in these communities”. He went on to say that “when you have a religion that reminds you several times a day through prayer that you are this religion. You have to plan your day accordingly. So, the religion becomes the culture. “
Which I mostly agree with.
There is no way to fix stupid. All of the elements needed to go underground are included in the instruction manual for all religions. It only creates further conflicts in future generations. The only way to fix this is to introduce scientific thought and principals at a young age across generations and slowly whittle away at them. If you present a solid target, you'll never succeed. People must realize on their own that they do not believe in magic and that this applies across all of time in both directions without exception. They need to see things like the cosmological constants are the true signature of the universe. If a god made this place at a minimum she should have written these down to undeniably sign her work. People need to realise, the past had extremely uneducated people, but they still had clever conartists, they still had all the mental health disorders we see now and then far more because of those that get treatment now. When something says X-Y-Z happened and thousands of people saw it, do we have thousands of accounts or one person saying so. Did they write it down right after it happened or decades later. Do their accounts have errors like a school kid cheating on their homework and copying others or are they consistent. Saying "X-Y-Z happened, and ten thousand people saw it" four decades after it happened and after a giant rebellion where most of those people died is nonsense. Some prophet zooming around like they have Dr Who's Tardis is just as fiction. People were stupid back then. They are not much better now. We were all very stupid as children. It is hard to reverse the stupid things we learned as children. The only way to fix this is to get to these children subtly without alerting the stupid children that are raising them.
This is NOT religion. This is stupid culture. There’s a reason every religious leader in Iraq condemned this. This stupid cultural idea existed for thousands of years, long before religion, and religious leaders are the ones actually citing holy books to help put a stop to this. Blame the right people.
Look, there are Christians that believe in polygamy and child marriage as part of their faith. Does that mean all Christians? No.
Likewise, do I think that all Muslims support this behavior? No. But the numbers don’t lie. It is an almost uniquely Muslim phenomenon. It doesn’t matter where the Muslims come from.
But the numbers don’t lie. It is an almost uniquely Muslim phenomenon.
What?? You think muslim people have the lock on killing their own children. I think I just saw a news story weeks ago about a woman in the u.s. that killed her children. I mean americans usually tend towards just killing a bunch of other people's kids, but whatever. Keep thinking religion is the bad guy here.
We weren’t talking about just killing children. We were talking about honor killings. Please stay on point here.
And you have no way of indicating whether or not someone who had killed a child has deemed it in their mind as an honor killing. The point is, you have a lot to learn. Thinking this can just be solved by eliminating religion, well that's a tall order. Preach on though, and show those wacky muslims how they should act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings_by_region
I’m just going to leave this right here.
And from your link "Honour killings are believed to have originated from tribal customs." But go ahead with your muslim diatribe.
Who cares where it originated. Also, if that’s the case. Then how did these tribal customs spread all over the old world. It’s in Muslim communities in the Middle East. It’s in Muslim communities in the Balkans. It’s in Muslim communities in Africa. I mean for that matter 90% of honor killings in the US are Muslim.
You can keep lying to yourself all you want to. But don’t tell me what the numbers plainly state. This isn’t a race thing. There are Muslims of all colors. Likewise, it’s obviously not all Muslims.
But it’s undeniable that just one problematic part of the Muslim faith is honor killings. Next you’re going to try and explain away child marriage in the Muslim faith. Tell me that Muhammad didn’t have a child bride.
My favorite was this crazy math thing this guy told me one time. He said that for women they started counting age at puberty. Since was 7 when she married Muhammad, but started puberty at 12. That means she was 19.
Ill let you figure out why that’s wrong. Here’s a hint. The answer has to do with Muhammad’s first wife.
And yes I know some Christian sects like the FLDS also do child marriage. It is equally abhorrent, but we aren’t talking about them.
The thing is that honor killings are just one more disgusting facet of Islam. Period
who cares where it originated
You do, since you’re the one who brought it up in the first place and insisted on it until facts proved you wrong.
90% of the honor killings in the US were by people from one of those ethnic regions, and they were doing it for tribal reasons. The Muslim community including Muslims of their own ethnicity were horrified by the practice and unanimously condemned it. The people convicted weren’t even religious. That’s because there’s literally nothing at all in the Quran that supports this practice. Like I said, it’s a pre-Islamic practice that dummies held onto.
Let me try to make this simpler for you since you keep ignoring the reality. There were once primitive tribes that believed they had to sacrifice a virgin every year in order to keep the crops growing. Eventually, Christianity and Islam spread to the region, and despite converting there were some who still believed in the practice and tried to do it anyway, until actual religious leaders had to trek over to these remote places and make them stop. History is full of examples like this; Iranians celebrate Nowruz as a cultural holiday even though the holiday is an ancient Zoroastrian one and Iran is now majority Shia. That doesn’t mean it’s an Islamic holiday. You don’t get to blame the religions for their practice no matter how much you hate them.
This dipshit is also ignoring that fact that there could be other killings outside of muslim culture that just aren't branded honor killing. How about Alex Murdaugh? He killed his wife and son. His son was under indictment, accused of driving a boat into a bridge while drunk, killing a passenger. That sure seems like a honor killing to me. But hey, he isn't muslim, so we won't call it that.
I don’t remember saying anything about where it originated other than who cares about it.
All that matters is where it is now. It is now an almost exclusively Muslim practice. As someone who grew up hanging out with a rich Muslim family a lot. I saw my best friend, and sisters kidnapped by their father taken back to Pakistan and almost forcibly married off. The reason was because the dad felt they were too western. The only reason they got back was because my friend and her older sister escaped and because they were born here got the us embassy to send them back. The younger sisters I think we’re too young back then.
Because of that same friend and her sisters. I got invited to a lot of parties for “brown people” but really it was just kids whose parents had immigrated here from all over, and most of them went to the same mosque as my friend.
I have heard a lot of similar stories. I mean I’ve heard some funny ones too. Like one dude told me how much he loves onions, but can’t eat them around his dad because it grows under ground.
My point is. We aren’t going to see eye to eye on this. Honor killings are a Muslim practice. You’ll never agree that it is, and I’m never going to agree that it isn’t. But even without that. Islam is an especially disgusting religion.
I also want to make one thing incredibly clear. I may not like religions of all faiths (I am an equal opportunity hater in that department), but I have no problem with the people. I only have a problem with the bad things they do in the name of their religion. So, don’t get it twisted. I dislike white American Christians just as much as middle eastern Muslims.
80% of the world’s cocaine comes from Colombia. By your logic that means drug trafficking is an exclusively Catholic practice. You’re trying really hard to connect two dots that don’t actually have a relationship to one another aside from geography.
Strawman fallacy!!!
But I’ll allow it. I’m bored of playing starfield.
If you want to use cocaine and Catholicism. It would be like if cocaine showed up in your country, and Catholics are the vast majority of people doing it. So you look at a map and realize that Catholics are doing cocaine in other countries. So, you do some more reading to find out that catholic countries all over the world from Africa to Eastern Europe to the Middle East. Are all doing cocaine despite being separated by mountains and oceans. Each country being surrounded by totally different cultures, and the only thing that these cocaine doing countries have in common is Catholicism.
Just out of fairness I have to add that India is also doing cocaine, because of the caste system. But they also have a huge catholic population.
But the numbers don’t lie. It is an almost uniquely Muslim phenomenon. It doesn’t matter where the Muslims come from.
I would like to see these numbers that show that it doesn’t matter where the Muslims come from.
No, it’s a middle eastern practice that exited for thousands of years before islam. Even though islam forbids it the cultural practice remains. You seem to be drawing a lazy false conclusion. Mafias pre-date Catholicism but just because the Italian mafia exists in a Catholic-majority area doesn’t make it a catholic practice.
But the practice spread with Islam. That’s the difference. Mafia didn’t spread with Catholicism, but honor killings DID spread with Islam.
No it didn’t. None of the Islamic missionaries included that with any of their teachings, which is why you don’t see Arab-style honor killings in places like Albania or Indonesia.
You keep insisting on something factually incorrect. It’s like claiming Catholicism invented wife beating and taught it to Latin America. It was never once sanctioned by Islamic scholars or leaders throughout 1400 year history.
/c/atheism
This isn't about religion. Please read the article before making ignorant comments.
Bro honor killings in a Muslim country are closely tied to their religion. I have a very interesting relationship with Islam, and I can tell you with about 90% certainty that this is because of religion.
https://healthresearchfunding.org/18-incredible-honor-killings-america-statistics/
90% of all honor killings in the us have been Muslim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings_by_region
Here is honor killings by region. Guess who does the VAST majority of them world wide.
Technically an honor killing doesn’t have to be religious, but then you have to say that Muslims have a cultural predisposition to honor killings, and honestly that sounds super fucking gross.
But going back to what I was saying earlier. I grew up about as close to the Muslim faith as you can and not be Muslim at all.
it's the religion of peace, you see
Like all of them, really. I dream of a day when all people realize neither of those bullshitty made up stories even make sense and will stop believing in all of religion.
Strangled in her sleep.
And considered not premeditated and only a 6 month sentence. I don't know what sort of premeditation theory they have in Iraq but you cannot act in the heat of the moment without any thought when someone is asleep. In the states that is premeditated murder without any doubt.
Edit: To give an idea how low the bar is in the states, I was on a jury that convicted a man of premeditated murder who strangled a woman. At first I was going to vote against it, but after reviewing the ligature I noticed the killer tied it off. That implied a level of thought that pushed into premeditation, because he took the time to realize she might not die if he released the pressure and he wanted to ensure she did.
The father most likely has connections somewhere with the police or up the chain, and was able to get a story crafted. Hopefully after the uproar they will increase the sentence and punish those who collaborated.
I'm sure even Iraq doesn't allow double jeopardy.
With enough uproar, the government will do whatever to silence it. It wouldn't be the first time a middle Eastern government responds to protests like that.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Tiba's death sparked protests across Iraq about its laws regarding so-called "honour killings", the case highlighting how women are treated in a country where conservative attitudes remain dominant.
When asked about the response of authorities to the killing, Gen Maan said: "Security forces dealt with the case with the highest standards of professionalism and applied the law.
For instance, in Article 41 of Iraq's penal code the "punishment of a wife by her husband" and "the disciplining by parents... of children under their authority within certain limits" are considered legal rights.
Article 409 meanwhile states: "Any person who surprises his wife in the act of adultery or finds his girlfriend in bed with her lover and kills them immediately or one of them, or assaults one of them so that he or she dies or is left permanently disabled, is punishable by a period of detention not exceeding three years."
Female rights activist, Dr Leyla Hussein told the BBC: "These killings are often rooted in misogyny and a desire to control women's bodies and behaviour.
Ala Talabani, head of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan's bloc in the Iraqi parliament, said: "Women in our societies are hostage to backward customs due to the absence of legal deterrents and government measures, which currently are not commensurate with the size of domestic violence crimes."
The original article contains 1,046 words, the summary contains 221 words. Saved 79%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Why are so many of the comments blaming the concept of religion, or the specific religion of Islam.... Rather than blaming the dad for being a murderer?
This dude murdered his daughter. He doesn't get to hide behind an excuse. He doesn't get to say "religion/culture/whatever made me do it"
Because religion is still the brainwashing machine that set it in motion.
Saying that it's all because religion and not blaming the father is stupid, but so is ignoring the importance of religion as a control tool.
Because fundamental Islam pretty much encourages violence against women?? Why are you not asking why violence against women is much more prevalent in Middle Eastern countries than almost anywhere else on Earth?
Despite how you've framed your comment, "blaming the dad for being a murderer" is the most surface-level analysis of this situation. We need to ask ourselves why did he kill her (as in, what environment needed to exist to make a father think that murder was a solution to whatever problem there was).
Murder is like half of the first page
News from around the world!
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc