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The Trump administration has reportedly paused all military aid to Ukraine.
The decision, reported by Bloomberg News, comes after a meeting between Trump and Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House on Friday descended into chaos, the latest in a larger fraying of the U.S.-Ukraine alliance.
The president is reportedly reviewing whether Zelensky is willing to engage in good-faith efforts at making peace with Russia, a Defense Department official told the outlet.
A tantrum that will allow more free people who want to join NATO and the sphere of American and European influence and economy to die while saving the lives of an invading genocidal army.
And you choose this. Your ancestors would be disgusted.
Saying that people who are kidnapped off the streets, who cannot leave the country (other than trying to cross "illegally" through mountains/rivers), who cannot vote, whose medias are controlled, saying that they are free is so fucking cruel.
Trump is the people's only chance of survival in Zelensky's concentration camp.
Or offer to give Ukraine 2 nukes if Zelensky steps down.
Or help Ukraine join a bigger organization that can help them. offer them statehood like Canada.
Better yet invade Russia right now. They can't even take Ukraine. That will end the war.
but no let's stop them from getting weapons over minerals rights and offer no alternatives. So Russia keeps everything and more Ukraine lives are lost over something they didn't choose. Russia is not known for forgiving population that gave them trouble. Just look at east Berlin.
give them nukes / start WW3
That's a very good idea, but only as long as only people supporting this are going to die. So, you know, you but not me.
more Ukraine lives are lost over something they didn't choose.
So let's stop the war so that lives are not lost.
Russia is not known for forgiving population that gave them trouble. Just look at east Berlin.
Are you trying to tell me that people on liberated territories have it worse than people on Zelensky controlled territories? That's absolutely incorrect. People on liberated territories are free and can leave at any moment. People on Zelensky's controlled territories can't.
WW3? who's supporting Russia? A country that can barely support a war effort with increasing the age recalling vets, up aged of conscription to 30, and using prisoners to fight battles. This whole thing started because Ukraine gave up the nukes they had in 1994 for protection that they didn't get. America is was them what is agreeded upon. Russia is not. If you can't honor a deal then give back the nukes.
We both agree on stopping the war but bend over to appease the aggressor is not the answer. That didn't work with Hitler either.
WW3?
So what in your opinion is going to happen if NATO/USA invades Russia? They will just give up and not nuke the shit out of NATO/USA?..
We both agree on stopping the war but bend over to appease the aggressor is not the answer.
Well, it doesn't look to me like that..
"End the war now by signing a peace deal" and "end the war that has been going on for three years where one side has been almost constantly losing more and more ground by trying to make that side win the war and return all lost land" are almost the exact opposite opinions if anything..
So you agree nukes are great deterrent. Let's pass some to Ukraine. In fact maybe for them mineral rights. If trump wants a steep price it should be worth it. And no I don't even think Russia has functioning nukes based on their performance in Ukraine.
Well Russia hasn't respected any cease fire so I doubt they respect anything that isn't backed up with Ukraine joining nato or nukes.
And no I don't even think Russia has functioning nukes based on their performance in Ukraine.
In other words you want to gamble on millions, or possibly billions of lives.
I'd be up for it but only if you were gambling on your own life and loves of your friends/family/etc., not on my.
Lives are being gambled and lost daily right now. Russia has lost 850,000 troops. No one cared about their lives. They had family, friends, etc. That's why war is bad. That fear of upping the Ante is why Russia invaded. Pass Ukraine some nukes and see if they back off long enough to get real protection. Nuke their own border or something.
None of what you mentioned has anything to do with freedom. Freedom isn't defined by what you can do, it's defined by what you can't do. If they capitulate to Russia, they'll permanently lose essential freedoms.
Yes, the situation is bad, I get that, but it should be the Ukrainian people who decide when to tap out. Russia will keep harassing them, and they will never be safe without strong allies.
None of what you mentioned has anything to do with freedom.
What? Being able to move freely has nothing to do with freedom? Not being kidnapped and forced into the meatgrinder has nothing to do with freedom? Being able to vote for your representatives has nothing to do with freedom? So, a person who cannot do any of the is free in your opinion? I guess we have a veri different definition of freedoms then.
If they capitulate to Russia, they'll permanently lose essential freedoms.
So, how do I sign up to lose the "freedoms" I've described above?
should be the Ukrainian people who decide when to tap out.
But we can't. Only Trump and Putin support us having a vote, everybody else prefers we have no say.
Everything you mentioned is due to the war. If we roll back the clock to before the war, which country was more free? If the war ends today, which country is likely to be more free?
I think Ukraine wins in both (esp if we remove issues due to Russian bullying). It wasn't some paradise of freedom or anything, but they had a lot more voice in their government.
Only Trump and Putin support us having a vote
Neither do, they both want concessions. Trump seems to want resources, and Putin wants land and no NATO expansion. Neither wants what's best for Ukrainians, they want spoils of war.
Neither do, they both want concessions. Trump seems to want resources, and Putin wants land and no NATO expansion. Neither wants what's best for Ukrainians, they want spoils of war.
They both want there to be elections in Ukraine so that we can vote. Zelensky (with support from Europe and previously USA) wants to continue being a dictator without elections.
Zelensky will not stop the war until the very last of us dead. As long as there is cannon fodder he will continue.
So don't matter how bad Trump's deal will be, no matter how much concessions will be given to Putin, it's still better than continuation of Zelensky's regime (and war as a direct consequence, with millions dead and wounded).
Zelensky (with support from Europe and previously USA) wants to continue being a dictator without elections.
Is that actually true? Because that sounds like a very pro-Russia take and doesn't really jive with the approval ratings I've seen, which are still positive (trending down, but still positive).
The problem with elections is they just aren't feasible without a ceasefire, and Russia isn't interested in that. So if an election happens in the current climate, it'll be heavily biased and I don't think anyone will really accept the outcome. Russia wants a pro-Russia stooge, Europe wants someone pro-western, Zelensky wants to remain in power, and I think Ukraine will want someone else soon if Zelensky can't end the war. It's a crappy situation, but if Zelensky wins, there's no way Russia accepts the outcome.
I don't know much about Ukrainian politics, so I don't know what alternatives there might be. But I do know Ukrainians should decide that, and that's not feasible if Ukraine capitulates to Russia.
Because that sounds like a very pro-Russia take
It doesn't make it false.
doesn't really jive with the approval ratings I've seen, which are still positive
You believe in "approval ratings" from a country which people are forbidden from leaving, where people are mass kidnapped off the streets (and then either die or get tortured by Zelensky's regime), where news media are censored (you are basically getting sent to die if you write something Zelensky does not approve of).
What other fairy tales do you believe in?
The problem with elections is they just aren't feasible without a ceasefire
Dozens of countries did elections in the wartime (including US). This is only an excuse for Zelensky to stay in power.
and I don't think anyone will really accept the outcome
USA and Russia are literally pushing for those elections, they will accept them. Most of the countries would probably do the same (except a few EU countries maybe) if USA/Russia tell them to.
But I do know Ukrainians should decide that
But that's exactly what I am trying to tell you - we CAN'T decide that. You literally support a dictator that prevents us from deciding anything. How are we supposed to decide anything if we cannot vote??
You believe in “approval ratings”
It's the best I have. The alternative is believing Russian propaganda, who are the aggressors here. Collecting accurate polls is nigh impossible though.
kidnapped
Don't forget that Russia also uses conscription too and has similar issues, and the US did as well. This isn't some crazy, unique thing in Ukraine.
Dozens of countries did elections in the wartime (including US)
I can't speak for others, but the US hasn't been occupied since 1812 (unless you include territories during WW2), and the election of 1812 didn't have issues because the British were largely fighting defensively for most of the war.
After a quick check, it seems the UK postponed elections by extending parliament's term during WW2 until 1945, after the Germans surrendered but before the Japanese surrendered. So there's absolutely precedent here.
USA and Russia are literally pushing for those elections
And both are going to heavily interfere and neither will accept the results if it's not what they want.
How are we supposed to decide anything if we cannot vote??
And how is your vote supposed to count if you're sandwiched between two superpowers each heavily invested in the outcome of the election? The war needs to end before a proper election can happen, and just ending the war now won't likely benefit Ukraine long term with no major side considering Ukraine's interests (Russia wants land, no Zelensky, and no NATO, US wants mineral rights, Zelensky wants to stay in power, and EU countries want a NATO border w/ Russia).
It must absolutely suck being in Ukraine right now, but regardless of who is selected to mediate, Ukraine will lose.
It's the best I have. The alternative is believing Russian propaganda, who are the aggressors here. Collecting accurate polls is nigh impossible though.
So believing one propaganda is better than believing another? Zelensky's propaganda doesn't even make any sense, how come everyone supports him, yet no-one joins the army and thus the need for a hundred thousand TCC "draft officers" roaming the streets and hunting people? How does that make sense to you?
Don't forget that Russia also uses conscription too
Russia conscripts, that's true (although there are also a lot of volunteers joining the army due to monetarily incentives, in contrast to Zelensky's regime which treats us as his slaves). Zelensky's regime kidnaps people off the streets. https://uadraftmuseum.ch/ Masked people with rifles are hunting people, beating people, putting people into vans to send them into the meatgrinder, in front of their crying mothers/viwes trying to fight them off (who in the extreme cases process to suicide bomb the draft centers in revenge...). This is how much people hate Zelensky's regime, and you are believing in Zelensky's approval rating..
So there's absolutely precedent here.
There definitely is. It doesn't change that the opposite is also possible, if Zelensky really wanted to (but of course he doesn't, war is the only thing that keeps him in power).
And both are going to heavily interfere and neither will accept the results if it's not what they want
"Interference" is what happens with every election ever, it's just that sometimes it's used as an excuse to not accept the results of people's will.
"Neither will accept the results" is a speculation/opinion that I don't think is based on anything.
And how is your vote supposed to count
Just like in every other election ever.
The war needs to end before a proper election can happen
Well, remind me, who is against this war ending? Is it Putin? Is it Trump? Is it people getting kidnapped and sent to "fight" it? Or maybe it's Zelensky? I don't see a realistic scenario of war ending with Zelensky in power, he is going to fight until the very last of us is dead. That's why there must be elections.
Ukraine will lose
It already did. It loses more and more territory every single day. All the "counter-offensives" but one were total failures. The Kursk gamble is falling right now (the offensive that was tried a month ago failed so spectacularly that medias are not even talking about it..). But some people want it to continue until there are no more people to sacrifice.
Zelensky’s propaganda doesn’t even make any sense, how come everyone supports him, yet no-one joins the army and thus the need for a hundred thousand TCC “draft officers” roaming the streets and hunting people?
Easy. People may support the idea of resisting Russia, but don't want to fight themselves.
Draft dodging wasn't unique to the Vietnam War in the US, it also happened during WW2. It turns out people don't like dying.
This is true for a lot of things. People can be in favor of the death penalty as long as someone else carries it out.
due to monetarily incentives
Well yeah, Ukraine doesn't have money.
you are believing in Zelensky’s approval rating…
The numbers make some amount of sense. It was 70%+ at the start of the war, and now it's barely above 50%. Most dictators give themselves a wider safety margin (look at election numbers in Russia or Venezuela).
So until I get better numbers, that's the best I have. And suicide bombings rarely indicate the majority opinion.
"Neither will accept the results” is a speculation/opinion that I don’t think is based on anything.
The US is famous for regime change, and Russia is basically doing that now in Syria (and losing), what are you talking about?
Well, remind me, who is against this war ending?
No side is interested in it ending without achieving their goals. Everyone seems to want to play with Russian and Ukrainian lives, and it's disgusting.
But what's even more disgusting to me is a foreign power coming in and taking advantage. The US wants Ukraine to capitulate so it can plunder its natural resources, so all those Ukrainian lives would've been lost for nothing.
If western powers want to help, they should send troops. Failing that, they shouldn't be at the negotiating table. Maybe peacekeepers step in to enforce a ceasefire so an election can happen, but that should be it.