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submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Tesla knew Autopilot caused death, but didn't fix it::Software's alleged inability to handle cross traffic central to court battle after two road deaths

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[-] [email protected] 44 points 11 months ago
[-] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago
[-] Lucidlethargy 36 points 10 months ago

Didn't, or couldn't? Tesla uses a vastly inferior technology to run their "automated" driving protocols. It's a hardware problem first and foremost.

It's like trying to drive a car with a 720p resolution camera mounted on the license plate holder versus a 4k monitor on the top of the car. That's not a perfect analogy, but it's close enough for those not aware of how cheap these cars and their tech really is.

[-] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

It remains to be seen what hardware is required for autonomous driving as no company has a fully functioning system, so there is no baseline to compare to. Cruise (the "4k monitor" in your anaology) just had to cut their fleet of geofenced vehicles after back to back crashes involving emergency vehicles along with blocking traffic and attempting to run over things like fire hoses.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Cruise and Waymo have self-driving cars, without safety drivers, driving around cities right now.

We know what hardware it takes - More than just cameras and some premapping is required.

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[-] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago

A times B times C equals X… I am jacks something something something

[-] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago

A times B times C equals X… I am jacks something something something

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Woman on Plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

Narrator: You wouldn't believe.

Woman on Plane: Which car company do you work for?

Narrator: A major one.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

When you're selling a million cars, it's guaranteed that some of them will have a missed defect, no matter how good your QC is.

That's why you have agencies like the NHTSA. You need someone who can decide at what point the issue is a major defect that constitutes a recall.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

”One of the major ones”

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[-] [email protected] 29 points 10 months ago

Of course not. Fixing it would cost money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto

The other day I said on here that self driving cars arent ready and got downvoted to fuck. This is why I said it.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

Here's how to do self driving cars in a reliable way. First, instead of cameras that try to use road markings designed for human eyes, use specially designed roads with guide rails on them to ensure it follows a safe path. Second, for added convenience, these roads could also power the cars so you don't need to stop to charge. Then we could even connect those cars together to increase efficiency. To mitigate the cost, no individual has to own them, they can stop at fixed points to pick up and drop off passengers, charging an affordable rate for each trip, or monthly/annual passes for frequent users. Maybe we could call them trains.

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

https://www.wardsauto.com/blog/my-somewhat-begrudging-apology-ford-pinto

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-02-10-mn-1335-story.html

Two examples of the media creating a frenzy that wound up being proven completely false later.

In OP's case, both of these drivers failed to see a semi crossing the road right in front of them even though they were sitting in the driver's seat with their hands on the wheel. This technology certainly needs improvement, but this is like blaming every auto manufacturer when someone crashes their car while texting on their phone.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

but im saving the planet and making sure elon gets a cut of my money

[-] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

I feel like some people are such Tesla fanboys that they will argue when I say Tesla FSD is not real and never has been.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Probably because calling something "not real" is infuriatingly vague.

Feel free to expand on your position, I actually do want to know what "not real" means in this context.

If you mean, from a semantics perspective, that FULL means it should be a completely independent and autonomous system, bravo, you've made and won the most uninteresting form of that argument.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

I mean, don't call your service something it's not? Words should have meaning? Tesla's Autopilot is very impressive, but it's not fully independent, and that's okay. Honestly if it had an accurate name people wouldn't attack it so much. Other manufacturers are gaining similar capabilities but no one is complaining that their cars aren't perfect either.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I have nearly 20k miles on tesla's FSD platform, it works amazingly well for something thats "not real". There are countless youtube channels out there where people will mount a gopro in their car and go for a drive. Some of them like AIDRIVR and Whole Mars Catalog pretty much never take over control of the car without any drama. Especially in the past ~6 months or so of development it has been amazing.

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[-] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

I remember reading about the ethical question about the hypothetical self driving car that loses control and can choose to either turn left and kill a child, turn right and kill a crowd of old people, or do nothing and hit a wall, killing the driver. It's a question that doesn't have a right answer, but it must be answered by anybody implementing a self driving car.

I non-sarcastically feel like Tesla would implement this system by trying to see which option kills the least number of paying Xitter subscribers.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

At the very least, they would prioritize the driver, because the driver is likely to buy another Tesla in the future if they do.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Meanwhile hundreds of people are killed in auto accidents every single day in the US. Even if a self driving car is 1000x safer than a human driver there will still be accidents as long as other humans are also sharing the same road.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

When a human is found to be at fault, you can punish them.

With automated driving, who's to punish? The company? Great. They pay a small fine and keep making millions while your loved one is gone and you get no justice.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

People generally aren't punished for an accident unless they did it intentionally or negligently. The better and more prevalent these systems get, the fewer the families with lost loved ones. Are you really arguing that this is a bad thing because it isn't absolutely perfect and you can't take vengeance on it?

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

I think the whole premise is flawed because the car would have had to have had numerous failures before ever reaching a point where it would need to make this decision. This applies to humans as we have free will. A computer does not.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Full Self Driving is such a sim name. The feature is level 2 advanced cruise control.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Yet Phoney Stark keeps on whinging about the risks of AI but at the same time slags off humans who actually know their stuff especially regarding safety.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

It's time to give up the Tesla FSD dream. I loved the idea of it when it came out, and believed it would get better over time. FSD simply hasn't. Worse, Musk has either fired or lost all the engineering talent Telsa had. FSD is only going to get worse from here and it's time to put a stop to it.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The article isn't talking about FSD, these accidents are from 2019 and 2016 before public availability of FSD. Of course, "Full Self Driving" ain't great either...

The whole article is kind of FUD. It's saying engineers didn't "fix" the issue, when the issue is people are using Autopilot, essentially advanced lane keep, on roads it shouldn't be used on. It doesn't give a shit about intersections, stop signs, or stop lights. It just keeps you in your lane and prevents you from rear ending someone. That's it. It's a super useful tool in it's element, but shouldn't be used outside of freeways or very simple roads at reasonable speeds. That said, it also shouldn't be fucking called "autopilot". That's purely marketing and it's extremely dangerous, as we can see.

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this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
582 points (94.8% liked)

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