this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
40 points (72.7% liked)

Asklemmy

44612 readers
861 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Since Trump, I'm finding the Lemmy.world experience to be increasingly akin to an echo chamber and it's quite frankly starting to bore me. (Inb4, I'm a left winger and I don't like Trump, but I'm much more interested in a good spirited debate or novel points of view than I am in Orange man bad Nazi circle jerks)

If I wanted the same repetitive comments to be upvoted and any different opinion at all to be downvoted and even blocked/banned, I'd have just stayed on Reddit.

Are there any instances where different, opposing and novel points of view are celebrated and debated rather than simply derided and downvoted?

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago (18 children)

A better question is which instances have dominant points of view that actually align with the material reality we inhabit. Difference of opinion is only valuable when the opinion is grounded in factual understanding of the real world. It's valuable to have different views and interpretation of the facts, but if a view is divorced from reality then it's just noise.

load more comments (18 replies)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (41 children)

No single instance has very "broad" POVs, however some instances are federated more broadly and thus get more points of view. To that end, Lemm.ee and Lemmy.ml are much more diverse than Lemmy.world, which is defederated from the major instances with large populations of Marxists.

Hexbear and Grad tend to have a lot of Marxist (and Anarchist, in the case of Hexbear) perspectives you aren't really seeing much of on Lemmy.world, which is very "US Democrat Liberal."

You aren't going to find anywhere where the virtue of being "different" is worthy of celebration when it comes to POVs, and I think that's a bit of a lost cause. I don't see much value in entertaining the opinions of fascists, as an example.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Thanks for this. Will definitely check out those instances.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago

No problem! If you're looking for right-wing viewpoints, you can already see them from a Lemmy.world account, they usually hang out either on Lemmy.world or sh.itjust.works, it's more the Leftists that Lemmy.world censors from your view.

load more comments (40 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago

Perhaps surprisingly when it comes to breaking the echo chamber and having diverse political points of view and approaches (on subjects like identity politics, intersectionality, geo politics, organization building, strategy...etc) I'd say even ML circles have a lot more of that than just vaguely leftist safe liberal stances (at the very least they might have novel ideas and no orange man bad meme).

If you want more diversity of opinions you can expand in different directions, but I hardly see what good would be a place that has both fascists and anti-fascists for example and most of us are tired of picking internet fights. I suppose as long as you're aware of which kind of discussion you've more tolerance for you're good, but whether it's tolerance for the occasional black crime rate statistic or an esoteric graph of the falling rate of profit, you're not likely to find a space that has both.

In general I'd go with Cowbee's recommendations though (for something that's still obviously fairly leftwing)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

No.

E: okay, it’s not fair to just tell you the answer when you’re already broadcasting a desire to read a bunch of stuff so here goes:

If you want to see analysis and consideration of the right from an outside perspective you ought to be on hexbear or grad. Both instances don’t have near as many sky is falling posts or comments and trend towards figuring out why something is happening within the framework of doctrinaire Marxism Leninism or imperialism or at least what should be done to mitigate the effects rather than having a big ol hissy fit over it.

If, as is implied by your post and comments (“ good spirited debate”, “ opposing and novel”, celebrated and debated“, “ worthy of discussion or debate”), you just wanna see people fight each other online then check out reddit, x (the everything app) and facebook where that happens often.

If you have, and this is a reach, the desire to understand people who you think are on that right wing spectrum around you in real life, go talk to them. People love telling you what they think and when they don’t it’s because they know something you don’t or they’re up to something.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

db0 is federated with world hexbear beehaw ml and many others.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago

Not with Lemmygrad, though, so if their goal is to be as broad as possible dbzer0 doesn't cut it.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

You might be better off looking for a community where the moderation optimizes for that kind of discussion (ex. Removing low effort comments, requiring citations, academic oriented, etc). It's harder to find an entire instance that matches those points, but there should be a few communities like that

Then you can use the subscribed feed only, or block the communities you don't like

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Closest I can think of is Hexbear's News Megathread, but it isn't really for debate, just analysis of current events. Is there a comm like that elsewhere?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Gotta second this, it's a little hard to find from a separate instance- you need to go to /c/[email protected] and pick it from the pinned threads

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

The mega access was one of the biggest factors in making a Hexbear account for me, to be honest. A lot of great info in them (plus I like the casual chatting format of the general mega when I don't want to make a full post).

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Register and account on another instance that passes the litmus test of federation with .ml and hexbear. Block .world on that new account. Don't block all those instances .world told you to blindly hate.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

This.

The leftist instances have a good mix of leftists and liberals that are brave enough to do what they're told not to do.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

I'm about to say the same thing differently.

Eliminating .world filters the majority of the propaganda and bad faith users. What remains is leftist because once we pierce through the propaganda and bad faith, we all agree that left is human.

We've three core groups: social democrats, authoritarian socialists & communists, and libertarian socialists & communists. Each focuses on a different part of our timeline. Respectively: the present, the means to overcome the human paradigm, and the ideal solution as we understand it.

Edit: I left out anarchists, whom are often my favorite group. They never get the respect they deserve. I apologize for contributing to that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

There's communities I like on .world, so I just ban the most insufferable users and comms.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Do people do good, spirited debates anymore? Most of what I see would be more akin to wrestling a pig.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago

Debating online is largely useless for convincing the other party. Sometimes onlookers learn, but if it's a debate neither party usually concedes. Education works, ie someone asking for more information, but that's about it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (8 children)

I think you are going to have a hard time finding a place to talk with a group that overall deals in bad faith arguments and hate speech. They also tend to silo themselves off to their own platforms over concerns that their hate speech gets them moderated (because Free Speech != does not mean speech without consequences or needs to be tolerated by everyone).

If you really want to see the MAGA "point of view" you are probably better off going to them on Truth Social, Gab, 4chan, The_Donald, etc.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Your best bet is to be in a lot of instances. My experiences so far is that basically any singular instance has its bias', and while some unapologetically ban users for disagreeing with them, the ones that don't still down vote for disagreeing with them.

While one of these forms of censorship is worse than the other, it's all censorship, and the only way to see a variety of views is to stay in the varying instances.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›