How do you define a home machine? The Strada EP 1 is, from what I can find, priced from €10.000, which I find a bit crazy for a home machine, but then again I'm not at all familiar with espresso machines.
this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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Haha I've seen them for slightly cheaper and it's way out of my budget still, but if I could afford it, it seems to tick all of the "ultimate, do-everything espresso machine" boxes.
I measured, and it's so deep that it doesn't even fit on my kitchen counter unfortunately 😂 I'd need to build a dedicated espresso bar.
The GS3 I suppose would be the closest, cheaper, sane home equivalent, but would sacrifice the electronic paddle in exchange for a manual one or AV.
My stove top kettle and French press make better coffee than any machine I've ever used.
That's awesome, if immersion brewing is your favourite tasting coffee, then it's pretty easy to get good results on a budget (except the grinder!)
Unfortunately I'm drawn to espressos and cortados so things get a little more technical and expensive.
Have you tried different filter methods? The kalita/v60/chemex/aeropress etc.
The aeropress is actually what got me away from drip brewers, but I drink way too much coffee for it to be my main method. It was nice to use when I was working out of the office, though.
I'm about to do an experiment on which immersion brewing method is best. My plan is to 5 different brews in 8oz mason jars: boiling water and short steep (normal), boiling water and 24h steep, sun coffee (just letting it sit in the sun all day), room temperature 24h steep, and fridge 24h steep. I'm betting option 2 is the worst.
The other way a french press is best is because on one operation you can make an arbitrarily large amount of coffee
You want coffee for five? Easy. More? The machines are cheap, you can parallel them
The downside - you can't make any of the drinks made of espresso
Cold brew would probably beat the french press, if it didn't need forethought
Best at what? Best filter? Best looking? Most efficient use of space? Best at steaming? Best workflow? Most convenient?
Well, it's open ended for a reason, what do you think would be your ultimate machine if money was no limit, and what is your reasoning?
I'm not so much asking for recommendations as I am prompting for a conversation!
OK. Decent + EG1 because I like turbos and sprovers.
I have the EG-1 and it's fantastic! I'm super jealous they started releasing new versions and I can't upgrade though! 😭
Most flexible? Best turbo-shot? Best traditional espresso? Best light roast espresso?
My 8+ year old Keurig classic (K50?) that occasinally makes panicked struggling noises when the water tank is near full but still usually manages to squeeze out the coffee.
It was free, so obviously that makes it the best.
/backs into the bushes
/would this actually this count as trolling for mod reasons? ;)
Two brew heads? That's not a home machine.
What's your definition of 'best?'
The EP1 is one group head.
This suggests it's two or three. But there's an image with only one. Rather confusing.
Yeah the Strada EP1 is a single group head but pretty rare and pretty pricey. (And huge, designed for commercial use really)
"Best", well that's open ended, what would you have if money wasn't a limit?
I'm looking at the Strada because it seems to be the only machine with everything modern high end espresso machines can offer in one package.
And huge, designed for commercial use really
That's what I was getting at.
"Best", well that's open ended, what would you have if money wasn't a limit?
Depends on what you want from your coffee making and consumption experiences.
For example, I'm looking to get a Decent Espresso DE1 because seems to be a fairly open, community oriented product that allows me to gather, visualize and act upon the relevant data, allowing me to tailor my coffee quite exactly to my liking. It also seems to be user-repairable, which I also appreciate.
So if you're interested in tinkering with your coffee and machine it may be something for you, as well.
On the other hand, if you want to rely on the vendor more heavily and maybe tweak premade profiles a little and certainly not repair the machine yourself, the Strada be more interesting. I say this, having taken only a cursory glance at the product website, so adjust with salt to taste.
I've toyed with the idea of a decent many times but I can't bring myself to give up the rotary pump and boilers. The interface is quite janky looking too, even with its limited customisability.
I feel like I'd prefer the mechanical options that will perhaps stand the test of time better. I have a Lelit Bianca currently so I'm no stranger to pressure profiling, but would like something with automation (like the decent or Strada) with a reliable extraction temp, really good quality dry steam and hot water on demand.
I wish I could borrow a decent for a week to try it out day-to-day and see if it beats out what I'd get in a similarly priced GS3 in the cup.
It's kind of frustrating you need to plumb the machine in with an extra kit sold separately, I don't think I'd have room the way my kitchen is laid out!
(If I had strada money, I'd make my kitchen fit the machine!)
Easiest and fastest way for an amazing single cup of coffee is probably the clever dripper. It's utterly fool proof, and combined with good beans and a good grinder makes top shelf coffee. Also it costs almost nothing.
If you are looking for a batch brewer that will last the rest of your life go for Technivorm Moccamaster. I've had mine for 10 years and wouldn't want to live without it! Good grinder and beans needed of course!
I am a big fan of the Clever Dripper. I use one daily at the office.
How many espressos are you making a day with this? As it and similar machines at this price point are absolutely the right sort of machine if you spend multiple days a week dialing in beans doing up to a dozen back to back shots, or other greater weekly high volume loading.
However for someone doing 2 to 4 shots a day and dialing in once a month with new beans its not the best use of the money or the counter space. Something like a decent with its parameter based programs is going to give you more drinkable shots more often first time, which is way more useful than something that still requires a lot of manual work to get a great shot.
Its fun to dial in coffee, but not every day at 6am when you have other shit to do.
Sure, the decent has its problems but most of those remaining problems center around design decisions made to enable flexibility. The fact that it can do a good job of mimicking shots like a londinium or a slayer adds in another layer for those who do like to play around, even if its only occasionally that they do so.
Why would a Strada be worse for dialling in than a Decent? Surely that's a grinder issue, not a machine issue?
The Strada and Decent are very different machines, the Strada by comparison is very basic but can take a punishing workload more suited to a proper cafe, the Decent is better suited to someone who wants to play around. Granted you can buy the more expensive Decents that have a higher duty cycle but even then, for longevity and back to back high volume workload my money would by on the Strada.
If you plan on regularly (more than once a week) switching beans and properly dialing them in till you hit that god shot rather than just acceptable or good level, then that means a lot of shots in a short space of time. If that's what you are into then the Strada is probably the better bet, although even then its massive overkill vs. a Linea Mini or similar. Personally I would rather spend the thousands saved on buying more grinders, the flexibility of having three high end grinders, one for clarity, one for body, one for pour over, without having to swap burrs and re-calibrate would far out weigh any benefit as a home user to having a Strada.
The Decent on the other hand may lose in duty cycle vs. the Strada but it has many additional features that for a home user who only changes beans every few weeks rather than multiple times a week and isn't chasing daily god shots. Parameter based programs on the Decent allow you to work around actual pressure (rather than just flow) and temperature (as it blends hot and cold water, rather than manipulating boiler temp) so the Decent can adjust the program during the shot for you if the beans aren't quite ground right to give you a cup that's somewhere between acceptable and good. When you do not have the time, beans, or money to waste chucking less than optimal shots, that is incredibly useful. Couple that with the ability to mimic other famous machines signature shot styles and the ability to develop your own or just download extra ones and auto play them.
I would wager its that day to day utility that is going to be more useful for more people rather than the ability to do a dozen shots back to back hour after hour with little temperature variance. Sure, some people will want that in a home setting, but outside of youtubers doing coffee reviews, who needs it?
So it's not about dialling it, it's about whether you're happy with a less than perfect shot and a machine that covers it up 😅
I'm currently on a E61 machine with a EG-1, so no stranger to dialling in and getting the perfect shot. The GS3 is likely the next real step up, but the Strada offers the consistent electronic profiling that other machines lack (so surely you could have the same profiles that the decent offers?)
The decent is an odd beast without it's boilers and with it's strange noisy pump, and it's old school UI that'll only age more with time. I'm super curious about using one, and the nerd in me loves the sound of all that data and graphing, but it just seems like a toy compared to a big sturdy boiler machine. Id be interested to try one for a week, but I don't even know if it would make a better cup than my E61.
Ideally I'd want everything that a GS3 offers, combined with the decent nerdiness... And there's not many of those around. The Sanremo YOU, or the Synesso ES-1 look like interesting contenders.
I think you are missing what I am saying about the effort it requires to get a perfect shot, day in day out as its a moving target on any grinder and machine combo. You cant dial in the perfect shot today and hit it first time tomorrow, well you might but then you should buy power ball tickets immediately as its almost the same amount of luck. Any commercial setting of repute should be checking and adjusting the dial in during the day as it will need tweaking. If you aren't tweaking every day with multiple discard shots then you aren't getting the absolute best from your coffee, and are actually where most people are.
What I am saying is despite what a lot of people say on the internet about dialing in that perfect shot they aren't doing it every morning at 6am when they have to leave for work in half an hour. At 6am I am quite happy with a shot somewhere between acceptable and good, which is more than enough for the effort required. When I get new beans on a lazy Sunday morning then is the time for me to be doing my dozen or so dial in shots, as that's when I actually have the time to chase a god shot. This is about the usage profile for what I would expect the average person spending thousands on coffee gear for home use to be like.
As I mentioned before, the Decent makes a number of design choices that limits it in other areas (such as pump type) in order to gain proper temperature and pressure control rather than inferior (cheaper implementation) or much more complex (expensive implementation) temperature control in the boiler or flow control pretending to be pressure control at a cheaper price point (and yes I really want flow and pressure control). Even though the Strada has proper pressure control its actually a bit finicky in implementation compared the Decent, as the Strada has its pump cycling and odd behavior for ramps/holds. The Decent despite the interface you don't seem to like is actually a lot easier to setup and its a lot easier to just download and go with one of the many preexisting profile. Its also far easier to debug what exactly when on with the shot with the data it gives you.
Buying what is a commercial espresso machine that is capable of doing a high volume of shots per day for years is just overkill. Its like driving round in a school bus because once every three years you need to transport 12 people at once. Or buying the biggest baddest impact wrench on the market when you just need to put in some deck bolts. There are better products suited to the home user that aren't duty cycle first and foremost but offer more usable functionality. Its typical all gear no idea approach, spending the most must give you the best result.
I like the look of the Sanremo YOU, but fiddling with the screen and buttons on the group head for proper in depth shot customisation fills me with loathing, you need the space to get proper graphs. If I am going to use an app then I am back where I started with the Decent. I haven't seen the Synesso ES-1 in depth yet but initially the screen looks too small for me for that distance as it looks like an old iphone size?
Regarding better shot from any machine, the machine is completely irrelevant once it can hold a stable pressure and temperature for a single shot if you are going all out for a god shot after spending ages properly dialing in using the very best grinder, burr set, water, and beans for whatever you want out of your espresso machine. Average coffee nerd doing their usual 6am shot on any high end grinder and machine will be out performed by somebody else using the same grinder, better water, beans, technique on a much cheap e61 that can do the stability I mentioned. Far too much is given to the high end machines for improving quality when they far behind grinders, which are behind beans, water, and technique for espresso quality.
How about the Decent?
I hear it makes a decent cup.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the no-boiler, no-rotary-pump setup, with no hot water on demand, and I've heard some negative things about the UI and the founder.
However, it's extremely intriguing as it would tickle that data/analytics part of my brain to be able to control my shots completely. I'd love to borrow one for a week and compare it to my current E61 machine.