this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2025
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This is a bit of a lower effort post, heads up.

I've always tried to be a bit less pessimistic about trends and platforms that are irrelevant to me. For a few years now I've been a bit apologetic when friends in group chats described TikTok as some kind of digital disease, for example, when they share some kind of egregious screenshot. I didn't use it, I didn't plan on using it, but I wasn't going to fault people for using internet platforms that they clicked with. I remember similar arguments about platforms like Pinterest, DeviantArt, or Tumblr in the past. Like they weren't for me but I got what they were going for there. They served a purpose, and they had a certain culture that was usually catalyzed by the platform's features.

My patience has been wearing thin, and the catalyst for it has been the nonstop torrent of what is affectionately being referred to as "AI slop" by the kids online. Every element of personality and personal escapism that seemed so foundational to the idea of cyberspace (remember the word cyberspace?!) is being mined and then worn down to dust in the pursuit of a nonsensical internet whose only interesting concepts seem to flourish in spite of the current trend.

I remember when things started transitioning from text and images to more usable video. Being in a part of the world with exceptionally bad internet, the video revolution was kind of a step back: video just took forever to load. But video was also more personal, and amateurishness was harder to cover up in a video than in a blog post. There were so many weird accents out there, regardless of English proficiency, that gave every clip of someone's voice a sense of place.

I only write this to contrast with the absolute hatred I have for AI-generated voice overs for slop content. I absolutely abhor the grating, EQed-for-loudness, syntactically perfect AI voiceovers I hear from people around me scrolling through short form video. This is a fucking waiting room, put some earphones in or do literally anything else. That type of voiceover really really gets under my skin. Robotic TTS was bad enough, but there is a "yuck factor" for me when a robotic voice feigns emotion or personality. It makes me think worse of whatever's being narrated. I cannot stress how much cheaper the average piece of internet "content" feels now that everything is gated behind multiple machine learning black boxes.


My internet upbringing came about a bit earlier than people my age. We still had dialup until around 2008 where I am, so until that point the internet escapades I was able to go on were quite limited. The bandwidth was extortionately expensive, and it was hard to check much out since we were still quite reliant on the landline for actual calls. It was only when the DSL came about in a few years (which we are still on... thanks third world!) that I was able to properly "surf". (I'd quite taken to the term used in French media for internet users - "Internautes" - basically like astronaut but for the online world... It carries a fragment of this sense of wonder I am chasing now. Cooler than "users" who "surf").

I loved the early web. 2010 or thereabouts was hardly the golden age of the web, of course. Web 2.0 was well underway and I was really exploring the recently-vacated ruins of an age in decline. But I loved what I saw. I would Google something that I wanted to know about - let's say, Windows keyboard shortcuts after a typing error and a subsequent eureka moment - and I'd click on what seems the most interesting. While I'd now look for something like a Microsoft help page, Reddit post, or a Github-hosted text file for such a query, I clicked on articles (I think the main one was from Lifehacker?) and naturally, blogs and personal pages. I remember discovering what gifs are and for the first month or so after that discovery I exclusively thought they were used for MSN emotes. "Dragonball Z emoticons animated gif" was probably my most searched query in like 2010.

I was never a blogosphere guy but I loved old hacked-together HTML personal sites. Sure most people were using Blogger or Wordpress (at least most people I could reach incidentally through tangential searches). I still return to Skytopia every few years, and sometimes write something in its now-desecrated guestbook. I'd found it while just looking for "3D fractals" online.

I have a few scattered memories that I look back upon fondly. I got really into origami and then papercraft models, for a duration of time that I can't quite remember. I very vividly remember stumbling upon a link to this model in a list of papercraft links, one cold winter. It was in an unremarkable HTML table list, that contained other, less impressive models. I still used that PDF's password as a sort of catch-all, basic zero-security password for years after finding this model, despite never putting in the effort to actually build it.

I'm rambling (I am full of too much alcohol and cheese as I'm still on vacation) but the point of this post is that I don't feel this way about the internet at all anymore. I don't feel like sitting in front of the computer and "experiencing the digital world" is giving me any escapism or inspiration, and it hasn't in a very long time. This is even worse, considering how much more time I spend now on an internet-connected anything now. Back when I was feeling the most connected to a bunch of cool scattered nerds online, I was spending a few hours at most every month in front of a web browser. Now it's multiple hours a day, split about evenly between business and pleasure. At least, pleasure in intent. The experience itself has been less than pleasing.

One step afterward was the early app age on iOS. It might sound very bizarre for the older and/or more privacy minded, but early app platforms were mostly populated by curious early adopters. Right before microtransactions and subscriptions absolutely blew up, these online communities were a small microcosm of the wider internet that skewed a little younger, and it is a strange thing to feel nostalgic about. My point is that there was some magic left in there. The main platform I have in mind is a defunct little proto-Discord (all groups were publicly listed with various privacy configurations) called Groupie, that was full of a very odd cast of characters. Of which I was one.

I don't know what I'm trying to say here. My post reads like old man yells at cloud, only the Cloud is a meaningless term and I'm by no definition an old man. I just miss the internet being magical. I'm sure there are parallels to people missing curated print media, missing having more options for quality (arguable) live television, missing the zeitgeist being transmitted through radio. I can't deny that there has to be a nigh-opaque layer of rose tint making this era of the internet seem like it's more than it was. But it meant something, dammit. The uncensored, fully customizable and unapologetically crusty looking personal pages carried a promise of some kind of techno-utopia that never happened.


A few months ago as I was looking back through the documentation for IndieWeb, this personal blog was linked. I got a tiny hit of that internet euphoria, in a weird way. Nothing about how this person seems to post their location appealed to me, as someone in a tiny country the size of a shoebox. But most of the early internet involved stuff I wouldn't do, so - experiencing things I dislike about modern social media but in the milieu of a personal website was a nice compromise.

What really got me was everyone's favorite article I Will Fucking Piledrive You If You Mention AI Again. It is a generational piece of writing that I will treasure like the other Fediverse darling, Cory Doctorow's Tiktok's Enshittification. Alongside the Reddit exodus of 2023, these really made me feel like I could be doing more to interact with the side of the internet that is still trying to be more personal.

I have a bit of internet doomerism left inside me, even knowing about initiatives like IndieWeb. I'm fully aware that the early aughts web aesthetic and culture explicitly arose from the disconnect between people and the limited tools the average person was willing to wrap their head around. It's very different to now, an era where I find myself disgusted by people formatting videos that will only circulate among friends in a closed group chat in the same way that an Instagram video would be formatted, practically looking like an advertisement in terms of pacing... Like the main goal of being online is "content". We all have our own rant about the word "content", so I won't rehash mine right now - especially after writing this whole rant post.

I just hate how everything is converging into the very thing we complain about AI slop outputting. Garbage out requires garbage in and I can't help but feel like we are increasingly encouraged to create, gargle, and consume garbage, from even before this current era of machine-generated slop.

I wish I had a positive note to end this on. I don't want my writing to be whiny screams into the void. But at least it's my own writing - and unfortunately, the bar is just getting that much lower. I feel like I need to apologize for insufficient editing.


I originally posted this to my personal blog. I try to post better stuff on there than this, but hey - if I only posted posts that were perfect, I'd post nothing.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

There is something to be said for the internet in its age of discovery. Back when we had web rings and mostly print media here. I personally dislike the advent of video because it's so jarring to me. And living through its rise unpopularity it astounds me that people have such a lack of tact and courtesy to others around them. Nobody should be just playing media in public unless the media is specifically being broadcast to the public (a show, a movie etc) in specific and agreed upon places. There is a difference between going to a concert and someone blasting their crappy radio on a bus or in a restaurant where they don't own the establishment.

I think though that this is partially because the world in general is so.... Broken that people have a hard time having meaningful interactions with one another and they use this kind of media to still feel connected and try to fulfill a social need they have that isn't being filled the way it would be normally by having in person interactions.

But the other side of that of course is the fact that the infrastructure we use to communicate online has been turned into a for-profit money making machine for corps and that just makes the above mentioned problems worse.

There just aren't any cool niche things to be found anymore on the internet it seems. Like by the time I come across interesting content, millions of others have as well and they post and repost it repeatedly to the point where I don't want to be the person who regurgitates it.

It also feels like everything that I still do enjoy about the Internet has a significant downside. FOSS seems to be trying to fix or mitigate those downsides but I don't necessarily feel like they're doing a particularly good job. It seems like people want to cherry pick which problems to fix and which fixes to support to the point that the fixes don't seem to gain any traction.

As an example I'll posit Grayjay. Google's ad revenue business is constantly making ad supported YouTube worse. It's even in some ways making "ad-free" subscription based YouTube worse. Patreon to support creators seems to me to be similar to gofundme being used to support people who can't afford healthcare. It's a stopgap and it's not reasonable in the long term. Subscription makes more sense (it pays better for the creator than ad revenue based support), but it is also very problematic, especially with price hikes, the bundling of unwanted services, the constant ads for services that aren't included in the bundle etc.

Grayjay seems like it would be a great fix for this. But it has its own problems. And other front ends for YouTube also are problematic in that they don't support creators. Ads are a lot of the problem here but the solutions all seem to be particularly hamstrung and it's because ad revenue seems to be the backbone keeping the Internet going. And it's the status quo which the vast majority of people don't even give any thought to.

Anyway, I guess my point is, I agree with you.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

The biggest thing I've started not doing (stopped doing? whatever) that's helped me is spending any time using search engines to find things.

If I'm looking for something I try to find some sort of forum, or irc channel, or discord group, usenet group, or message echo or whatever and just ask what's (probably) still an actual person.

Maybe google would be faster but holy crap has my quality of shit-i've-found online gone way the hell up once I stopped asking a computer to send me to something obscure or old or odd, because every search engine has basically decided to go all slop, all the time now.

The only drawback is if I'm asking someone a question about OS/2 on an echo, it might take me a couple of days until some greybeard comes back with an answer, but so far it's been 100% accurate shit, rather than either nothing useful, or incorrect slop.

It also fixes that weird thing where the internet feels like nothing but bots and AI slop generators, because you're in a situation where you can almost 100% be certain the person you're talking to is still actually a human and it also leads to lovely conversations about other shit, and really brings back the feel of the "old" internet before it got infested with big tech who capitalism-ed it into a pile of garbage.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Not my place to tell you what to post, but I would have just made a link post to your blog. I found it more pleasant to read, and gave me an incentive to poke through your backlog. Entertaining stuff!

Less meta: you just prompted me to actually remember when my Internet journey actually began. Must have been early to mid oughts, mostly playing flash games on lego.com . I remember an elementary school buddy came over one day and helped me create the Email I'd use for 15 years, and introduced me to some regional forum that went offline many years ago.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

I’ve always been hesitant about just straight up linking it. Given it’s on Mataroa it’s not like it’s monetizable (deliberate choice). Maybe I’m too averse to what might come off as self-promotion. In the age of everything being “content”, I don’t know, I almost have a desire to never share anything.

Thanks for the kind words. Since you’ve mentioned digging, I’ve now made sure to include a link to a friend’s blog (a much more interesting and talented writer than I am), in case anyone does more digging. That’s how the internet should work right?

Thanks for sharing the start to your journey. Some regional forums I was on, while virtually dead, are still online. For now at least.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

and introduced me to some regional forum that went offline many years ago

every so often when I do password manager housekeeping, I take a browse around some of the older entries here and there. resultingly: I have a stunning and diverse collection of bitrot, comprised of more than merely a bunch of dead links!

(I still fairly often ponder what happens to all that data that almost definitely wasn't handled "rm -rf at company shutdown" way...)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

At this point I am convinced that the only way not to see the atrocities is to shut one's eyes and keep them tightly closed without a second's rest. Maybe not immediately, but the moment the next "digital disease" comes along, one's days are numbered until it's just the norm online and in one's circle of acquaintances. If not Disease™, then Disease Lite™.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

ut the moment the next “digital disease” comes along, one’s days are numbered

wut

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sorry for the confusion, this might help

At this point I am convinced that the only way not to see the atrocities is to shut one's eyes and keep them tightly closed without a second's rest. Maybe not immediately, b

and

until it's just the norm online and in one's circle of acquaintances. If not Disease™, then Disease Lite™.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

oh, didn't get you meant as a reference, right

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

you're not alone, I myself have lamented in passing around here

unclear from your post whether you've been following the spaces of people talking about this, been following along on here, or anything such. so first I'll ask - have you? if not, there's a whole bunch of threads and commonly-followed names to be found on awful that may provide references, touchstones, and more

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I haven’t been paying too much attention to most of the writing specifically in this community. I just skim All like I used to skim my Reddit home feed.

I don’t know how much carries over in terms of federation between awful and db0. But “references, touchstones and more” sounds like something I’d like to catch up on. I’m aware of the search engine being discussed in your linked thread, and I’m aware of some other initiatives, but I really feel like I’m on the outside of that community looking in.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Ed zitron (talking about the rot economy, and other present tech/internet downslope garbage) features pretty frequently on here, as does Brian merchant (search “blood in the machine”)

There’s a couple podcast threads as well, search for “behind the bastards” on here and you’ll find them. Search on my phone isn’t great

Someone else I’ve been following recently who also posts (practical) hope amidst the trash is joan westenburg

Re db0: awful is on lemmy as well so it mostly works. So you should be able to sub to techtakes easily. Read the sidebar/about for an intro about the place tho

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i mean, this post is absolutely on topic for here

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

oh yeah - wasn't so much saying it wasn't, as I was meaning to say "given what you grump about, there are other things on here that you may enjoy"

I blame at-boot brain for not making that clear

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Yeah, the mainstream is pretty crappy, but it's always been that way from music to food to style. The mainstream internet was briefly interesting while it was based on the foundation of nerds, until the CEOs figured out how to make money on it and turned it to garbage. But the nerds are still here and the tools are still here.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Hey! I like the way you write! Topic is a bit gloomy but I do get where you're coming from and I share some of that nostalgia. For me, growing up, the internet felt like a portal to a bigger world where anything was possible. As much as there's more stuff online now, somehow the internet feels smaller and more cramped than it ever has before, and I do think it's because of this convergence into slop and content.

At the same time, I am, like you, encouraged by some of the signs of life of a more personal and authentic internet. I really do wish that we hadn't adopted Discord as the de facto forum replacement, but alas. Also I like netizen as possibly an English alternative to internaute.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

Didn’t even read 99% of the post, but I’m witchu.