this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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oldie meme but needed to bring this back due to recent incidents 😭

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I see more Motte-and-bailey fallacy.

I see less "I like pancakes" and more "I think pancakes are superior to waffles" from the first commenter.

Then the second commenter responds, "So you hate waffles?"

Then the first commenter retreats to "No, I just like pancakes. Why are you assuming what I'm saying? Don't you understand I'm being nuanced?"

Also, nuance is one of the more recent words to have a new usage like literally, which can now mean figuratively. When people say their argument is nuanced they mean it is good or correct. It reminds me of the use objective to describe a person to pretend they don't have biases to incorrectly validate their arguments.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

On the other hand, a failure to make assumptions about what someone is saying leads to people being able either to willfully misrepresent their positions ("Oh, I don't hate waffles, I just bring up how the world would be better without waffles in every conversation, no matter how tangential!") or unintentionally fail to see the necessary implications of their statements ("I'm not saying waffles are better, I'm just saying pancakes are worse!")

All language has some ambiguity, which necessitates assumption in communication.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Me when I talk to my wife...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

It's okay 😁 we're both very open about, and aware of, this issue. So I just let her know it's happening and we giggle about it (sometimes). πŸ˜„

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So you admit that you're checking me out? And you wanna mate?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Oh sorry I was making a reference to Xavier: Renegade Angel, where Xavier somehow misinterprets the phrase "Checkmate" to be a proposition for sex, from a clone of himself. (One of those.. "Did I watch this at 3am one night or was that a fever dream?" shows)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

bwahahaha good to clarify i would never have guessed that

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

While I don't want to deny that people try to put words into others mouths, I think context is still important. It is possible and even quite typical to send messages beyond the meaning of the actual words used in a statement and simply playing dumb when someone calls you out for doing that is also not a great look.

Think of going to a waffles-convention and just walking around claiming that you, in fact, like pancakes. Of course people are going to assume you're a troll.

It's important to think of different perspectives and at least consider if something you meant in a very innocent way might still not sit right with someone else. Certainly not easy to do, mistakes will always happen, but honestly trying makes a huge difference imo.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I think it can be important to see the intent behind words and ask for clarifications. Oftentimes people are not direct about their opinions.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

yuh, totally! i even experienced an example of your counterexample recently https://lemmy.cafe/post/10752342/8934173

egg on my face, i guess i worded a meme so badly it gave 180 degrees the opposite impression (to some). was super thankful to this user for being transparent and helping me identify what part to edit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Bruh, it's so real. I made a comment that whenever I get messed up food at a restaurant, id rather just ask for a refund than ask for a replacement. Obviously there's a lot of nuance in this comment, but I had people taking all kinds of meanings from it. One guy told me I was a complete asshole and some other stuff, just because I'd rather have a refund at the McDonald's instead of asking the overworked, underpaid employees to remake my order as I sat in the drive-through, and so I wouldn't have to pull over and wait even longer.

People just want to be pissed off and angry.

[–] pelespirit 3 points 3 days ago

And some are just trolling, that sounds like you were trolled.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

I like cameras to capture picture

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Equally common, unfortunately, is people who don't state their point, they just lay out the pieces and expect you to put it together, but then if you say something bad about it suddenly that's "not what I said". Schrodinger's point.

I've developed a response to comments that do this saying-it-but-not-saying-it thing, and while I try to judge sincerity, there are false positives. An okay approach I've found is just to ask people to clarify: if they say something reasonable they're genuine, and if they dodge the question they're a troll or someone who doesn't want to admit they believe something bad.

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