this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2024
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[–] sugar_in_your_tea 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, there should be a wall between church and state.

However, I disagree with the statement, religion _absolutely belongs in schools. Students should study religion as part of cultural studies because it's such a huge part of our social interactions. Religious students should have accommodations granted, such as Muslim prayer time (and their Friday holy day), Sikh head coverings, etc, and students should learn about why these accommodations are important.

At least in the US, we have a constitutional amendment that bans the government from making any law preventing free exercise of religion, and to me that means restricting expression within schools. It also bans the government from establishing a religion, and to me that means giving preferential treatment in schools to any particular religion.

Religion should absolutely be a part of education in our schools, and it should absolutely be separated from government. These are absolutely compatible.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

When I went to school in Sheffield, UK we had a course for religion. I think it was obviously just the major ones and I got grouped into 'non-relgious' where we studied other religions. I'm assuming it's probably without the piety and single-focus of the other classes, but I can only assume.

I also think there's value in learning other religions due to their connection with history and the arts and stuff.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea 2 points 14 hours ago

We briefly covered religion in K-12 education, but only when religion was directly related to world history. We touched on religions, but only for like a day, and only as an explanatory factor in other world events. We didn't learn much of anything about those religions themselves, even as much as what day of the week they worship on, or the core tenants of their religion (though we did learn the name of the big religious texts though).

It wasn't until I did concurrent enrollment at a local community college where I actually studied other religions. We read excerpts from the Qu'ran, Bhagavad Ghita, the Bible, and others, and learned about the connection between the various religions. That class was amazingly instructive and I think something like that should be part of the core curriculum for K-12 education (perhaps around grade 10 or 11). A little bit of understanding goes a long way to establishing tolerance and mutual respect.

A lot of people don't actually understand their own faith, they just attend services because that's what they're culturally expected to do. I think a secular education about religion can go a long way in helping people understand their heritage, as well as understand their peers.

[–] Imgonnatrythis 5 points 13 hours ago

Oh but it's ok for science to be there?! You need to check your bias. This isn't the 1990s. There's plenty of alternative facts now that kids can be learning about. If we keep science in schools we are just going to end up with more kids with shit jobs like engineers, researchers, and doctors.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

Well it depends:

Science and Religion are not opposing forces:

You can study religion at the university using the scientific method. That is comparing different religious texts, analysing the historical context of the religious texts, explore how religious tradition evolved over time.

Also I have a hard time imaging a society without religion. People will always believe in something, be it fate, astrology, crystals. And people always have. Religion is a big part of our culture. Not talking about it will not undo it. We have to talk about it and and we have to teach about it. Teach about the atrocities commited in the name of religion but also the fascinating ideas religion has left in our culture. Such as the idea that you have a moral obligation to help the vulnerable, beyond your personal interest.

And teaching should not be left to your weird aunt or some strange people on the Internet. Teaching needs expertise and should be done in the best interest of the child.

A society founded on laicism gives no democratic voice to the issues of religion. Religion becomes a private matter and will only be taught by false prophets with a private interest such as making money from scamming people or gaining political influence.

The public must fund religion for it to be free and it must also make sure that there is no religion who actively undermines the constitution. Tolerance only works if there's a minimal consensus on the fact that we have to be tolerant and how we resolve conflicts in a peaceful way and this minimal consensus should be the constitution.

So it always depends on your current point of view:

Are schools filled with proletyzing fundamentalist ?then yes you might need less religion and more science in school or more scientific method in your religious teaching

But are your kids so uneducated about religion that they blindly believe everything they are being told about "gods will" ? Then please reintroduce some religious teaching in your education system. Let them work on the sources.

Here's an interesting example of this

Dlf Islamunterricht - Schwieriger Weg zur Normalität im Schulalltag https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/islamunterricht-schwieriger-weg-zur-normalitaet-im-schulalltag-dlf-e73dc633-100.html

[–] [email protected] 1 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

This just.... isn't true

When I was a kid we had a class called R.E.

Religious Education

The whole point of it was to inform and educate kids like us about the multitude of religious and non-religious beliefs in the world, and to allow us to form our own opinions, while also understanding different perspectives on the subject

[–] [email protected] 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Because learning about a religion is not the same as followimg or being made to adhere to it concepts.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

You just described the whole philosophy of the educational course we were taught

[–] [email protected] 1 points 13 hours ago

That would be good in theory, but incredibly easy to exploit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 hours ago

Accurate. Officially, there's a wall, but in practice, church and state go around the side of it constantly.