Mildly Infuriating

So it's a mandatory tip, and it's also suggested you voluntarily leave a secondary tip.

Tip culture in America is so aggressive.

All the arguments about tipping here are missing the point. The restaurant owner just came up with a bullshit way of raising the prices without showing larger numbers on the menu. That should honestly be illegal.

The thing is, by paying for food we should be paying the employees - that's how salaries work. But in an effort to out-compete each other in the razor-thin margin business that is most restaurants, they don't want their menu prices to go up, because that discourages customer spending. So many restaurants use underhanded tactics to screw customers instead. Hidden menu prices, sneaky service fees, and begging for point-of-sale tips at places where they're not getting paid shitty server salaries (like fast food).

I’ll be the one to stoop to a name and shame. From the receipt, that’s Jon & Vinny's Brentwood. Thanks—will now be sure to avoid going there.

All wages are paid by customers. Where do you think the money to pay them comes from? Heaven?

The underhanded and sneaky part is that the menu prices are a lie. If they want to pay a decent wage to their employees, good on them, but they should just raise all menu prices by 18% instead of surprising you later.

If the service charge is always there then just raise prices by 18% and stop misleading people ffs…

Corporations invented Jaywalking to pass the problem of death by vehicle from the manufacturer to the victim. Corporations invented the concept of Litterbug to shift blame from the makers of trash to the disposers of trash. Corporations invented the concept of the personal carbon footprint to shift the blame from the makers of carbon to the users of carbon.

This is just the same thing. Corporations are good at this.

What a joke. Just raise your prices and put it on the menu. I would refuse to pay that. That was not listed anywhere before you ordered.

I thought the point of paying servers a living wage was to make tipping unnecessary.

Any auto-grat on a bill is an instant big fat 0 on the tip line for me. Fuck double dipping on customers subsidizing shitty wages. It shouldn’t even need to happen once. If the restaurant can’t pay a reasonable wage it shouldn’t be in business.

I would be completely okay with a restaurant charging a bit more for meals if they also had a “do not tip” policy. Wait staff should be expected to do their jobs, the restaurant should be expected to pay their employees. As a customer I should be expected to pay the restaurant, full stop.

What is this nonsense? I mean, since the customers are the only source of income for a restaurant, of course the customers pay for the wages.

But why hide that behind obscure markups (that's all a service charge/tip is)? Why not just price the food 18% higher and drop the service charge?

That way, the restaurant earns the same money, but the customers actually know what they are going to pay and the restaurant visit doesn't end on a down note when paying.

Name and shame. Fuck this place.

Also “kids shells” for $22? Please tell me this is not macaroni and cheese.

Also by making it a service fee instead of a tip, management and the owners are able to tale part of it. Tips legally have to go to the employees, service fees can go into the owner's pockets.

I mean, that's basically the way it works. Here it's just 'transparent'.

Want to pay workers more - food gets more expensive. It's the same thing with America not adding sales tax to the sticker price. When I get something for 2 bucks in Europe, it's 2 bucks including the vat. In America, it's 2 bucks before vat.

But yeah, it's probably not properly implemented and just a scheme to get more money out of people.

I'm not in america, in our country when we buy a meal the tax is included, as is the cost of paying staff a living wage and tips are really only given (volunteerily, without prompt) in certain scenarios where service might genuinely be extraordinary.

It's always been fascinating to me that it could be done any other way and to be honest it sounds incredibly complicated and quite shitty the way america does it, it seems to me like it's an old fashioned relic from the swashbuckling 1800's, pay your maiden well and she'll make sure your mead is always topped up.. But in 2023 it seems absurd, prepared food and drink is just a product like anything else, do you tip at Walmart when you buy a TV?

"We want to charge you more, but we want to make sure you blame our wait staff for it."

I wouldn't be surprised if the QR code sends you to a website bitching about "the current administration".

EDIT: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2023-07-03/after-lawsuit-jon-and-vinnys-change-service-fee-language-on-bill

A list of L.A. restaurants doing this shit from a Reddit sub:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEPzeytrva770H2xPFFPDUUNdpnL_VQL4vbzFph-jus/edit#gid=0

Why don't they just raise their prices a bit? Adding a "not" tip to the bill just seems odd.

I bet legally, the establishment owners aren't required to give "service charges" to their staff the same way they are required to give 100% of the tips...

This is some shady shit, IMO.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer (so I don't know WTF I am talking about), so if someone here that knows the law could comment on "service charges" vs. "tips" in this context, I would love to know.

Frankly, the prices to sit in and be served and the prices to get the food and leave should be different. But this should be pre-informed so patrons can make the decision whether to dine-in or take-out.

Those prices are about what I'd expect to pay at a restaurant here in Finland too, maybe a little more here but somehow they're able to pay a living wage to the staff from that without extra "service charge" or tips.

Even if all the money does make into into the staff's pockets, the owner still averts financial risk by making worker pay a function of sales. An employer must have higher business risks than their staff, because otherwise the staff wouldn't need an employer anyways! This absolutely goes against the high risk - high reward scheme that is common place elsewhere. Want to earn more? Take a risky choice! Just want stable support for your life? Get employed and earn a regular wage.

Found it by the "helens shazzy" https://www.jonandvinnys.com/menu I don't live in LA so everything I see is based solely on the website. I read zero google reviews.l and just dove right in. TLdr -op you got finessed. Stop eating here my guy.

It seems by their website that fee is ONLY mentioned on the wine page (also based on this receipt and op statement, this fee is EXCLUSIVE to wine buyers for some reason) where they also charge a $50 corkage fee (most normal restaurants are 20-40), and also stock rotates "so frequently we can't maintain an updated list" which seems silly, but maybe stock at all 3 locations changes often enough that this really would would be a pain. The restaurant itself is....all over the place. Italian, and breakfast foods? But also there's Helen's Winery attached? And on weekends they act as a bakery? And they have "pizza classes" for $650? Idk they have several "sister" type restaurants that are either owned by the same owner or its some kind of franchising thing, but they're all equally VERY expensive for the food you get. Very upscale. For example [buttermilk pancakes, salted butter, maple syrup 16.25] compared to IHOP "chicken and pancakes" for $14 where you get not just 2 pancakes and butter, but 2 drumsticks. ADDITIONALLY on the Wine page "Modifications are politely declined." what does this even mean? No changes to wine? Or no modifications to your MENU? Dawg if I'm paying you 20.50 for a rigatoni, you're not putting "broccolini" in it.This shit ain't mom's house where I go to bed hungry if I don't like it. I sit at the big kids table and get a big kid fork.

For those just reading the slip, these are indeed all full dishes (not just single line items), in LA where everything costs more. Overall 0/10 I wouldn't eat here based on all this above, before even being infuriated by the "we pass the bill to you" shtick. I'm mildly infuriated just reading through this website.

Are you paying your servers a living wage or not? If yes, I'm not tipping.

When I worked delivery, at multiple places, we did in fact not see a dime of this fee. Got chewed out by customers a couple of times over it though.

There better be a big noticeable sign at the entrance telling you this. Otherwise, this is a bait and switch scam. Advertising one price, giving the service, and then changing the price. You can't advertise a price and then charge more for it without ensuring that the customer is informed about it. The only exception is tax, since it is something the average person should already expect. Even mandatory gratuity for large parties has to be communicated ahead of time. And this specifically says it's not gratuity, it's a charge for the service.

As soon as a customer is served something, it's too late. You can't just put it on the bill. Doesn't matter what they say it's for either. It's not your responsibility to pay the servers anymore than it's your responsibility to separately pay for the ingredients of the food. Unless they want to detail it all out up front. But then you'd see the huge profit margin.

This is a fascist tactic to turn people against the servers and shame those who want higher wages

Wait, $17 for Lettuce??

The crazy thing is, Los Angeles' minimum wage is already 16.78, and restaurants are required to pay servers at least minimum wage in California. None of this lower minimum for tipped workers. So they are adding at least 18% to that, unless the 18% service fee brings their workers up to minimum wage, which is dishonest, but wouldn't put it past a restaurant to do. After all that, they have the gall to sti ask for a tip!?! It's beyond bs.

Is it even legal to force you to pay more than the menu reads? I know tipping 18% is a social norm now in the states, but you can technically say no to that. Can you say no to this service tax?

Did you pay $16.95 for lettuce? Tf kinda restaurant did you go to?