this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
-39 points (14.5% liked)

politics

18828 readers
6042 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE JULY 23, 2024 (~20 days ago)

top 18 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is almost three weeks old (FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE JULY 23, 2024) and it is demanding a virtual primary vote, something that has already happened over a week ago on August 2nd.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It asks for a vote of the people, not the delegates.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I missed that part. I don't see how that would work though. I assume they mean only Democratic voters but that's still a hell of a lot of people. How would you have a secure, virtual vote with potentially millions of voters across the country?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I didn’t say it was a good idea.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Fair point.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

The Biden/Harris ticket had enough votes to win the democratic primary. Did anyone not think that voting for that ticket was also a vote for Harris in the case that the 81 year old candidate had to step down? That was indeed the case and here we are. What is the hangup?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

What they're proposing would be really messy, and wouldn't have had a similar outcome of quick unity and support that we've seen materialize.

I get the desire to have done a primary, but this situation was unprecedented and nearly every single potential challenger pledged their support for Kamala within the first 48 hours.

While no one can predict the unknown, at least to me I don't think it could have been handled much better than it was, other than going back in time and altering the original approach. That, of course, isn't possible since we don't have a delorean with a functioning flux capacitor.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

"This blatant disregard for democratic principles is ~~unacceptable.~~ the way it was done prior to 1972."

I get that for people who aren't old enough to remember a time before primaries this may come as a shock, but it's not unheard of.

Parties are allowed to function how they want.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Black Lives Matter - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)Information for Black Lives Matter:

MBFC: Left - Credibility: Medium - Factual Reporting: Mixed - United States of America
Wikipedia about this source

Search topics on Ground.Newshttps://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-statement-on-kamala-harris-securing-enough-delegates-to-become-democratic-nominee/
Media Bias Fact Check | bot support

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Dave M. Van Zandt has no academic media literacy qualifications. He's not a social scientist. He should not be running a site that is being used to censor news feeds.

How absurd is it that a Reuters report on the Black Lives Matter statement would get reported as "Least Biased" but the source of the article, the actual statement by BLM unfiltered by corporate media bias, is marked as medium credible and mixed factually? This bot is actively harming media diversity and LW should be ashamed for taking Dave Van Zandt seriously.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How about the fact that the article is three weeks out of date? Whose fault would that be?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The fact that the article hadn't already been posted in the last 3 weeks I think is a failing of the entire Threadiverse. I'm happy I could rectify it, but I'm also disappointed we didn't get an opportunity to discuss it sooner. We should all step up our game.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Agree that there was a failure of timing, but would put the blame on progressive leaders who didn’t step forward a year ago to mount a serious challenge. The problems with how this was handled are beyond counting but my original point was that at this point we need to put a hold on the infighting for all of three months and then we can start applying pressure in constructive ways that ensure this never happens again. If we can’t do that, nothing else is likely to matter for quite some time, and many things more immediately important than inner-party battles hang in the balance.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

put a hold on the infighting for all of three months and then we can start applying pressure in constructive ways that ensure this never happens again.

I'm not a Democrat or any other kind of party member, and BLM is not an organization of Democrats. This isn't an issue of party discipline, its a tried and true tactic for political change.

In the 1960s black people were much more actively discriminated against on a systemic level, practically prevented from voting in many of the states in the southern United States. The president at the time was the Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson, and was facing the much more racist Republican challenger Barry Goldwater. While the black vote was suppressed in the south, there was a significant voting block in the north of black people and their allies whose main issue was civil rights. Civil rights leaders, including Martin Luther King, met several times with LBJ, who coaxed them to tone down the direct action protests and criticism until after the election, as he claimed to we willing to negotiate with them once the threat to his power was diminished. Instead, civil rights protests increased. The leaders, probably correctly, determined that once the election was over, they would have less leverage. Even though losing the election meant having an enemy in the white house, having a 'friend' who continued to delay essential concessions did not further their cause. People were actively being murdered by the 'Jim Crow' apartheid regime, and delays and half-measures were not sufficient.

Thanks to the pressure of millions of people engaged in direct action and open criticism of the president, the Civil Rights Act was passed before the 1964 election. LBJ won by a landslide due to the popularity of the legislation, but suffered the severe political consequences Democrats were trying to avoid through their strategy of placation and delay. The 1964 election was the last where Democrats got the majority of the white vote, and electing politicians in the southern states became much more difficult for their party. Democrats will continue to ignore criticism unless there are real political consequences to their actions. If you're curious what historical role your rhetoric plays, look up Martin Luther King Jr.'s letter from Birmingham Jail:

I have never yet engaged in a direct-action movement that was "well timed" according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "wait." It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never."

I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; ...who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

Black Lives Matter is the spiritual successor to King's legacy, and have been fighting with direct action against the policies that Donald Trump champions since before he was first elected. They're not going to throw up their hands and give up if Trump suspends elections, and I hope you won't either.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But the statement from the BLM was about the Democratic Party, thus making that the point of the discussion. If you don’t care about the Democratic Party, why do you care about their nomination process?

And this is by no means an accusation, but that wall of text was so tangential to the whole thread that it reads like ChatGPT helped you write it. Trust your own words.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They are my own words, though a large section was copy and pasted from a similar comment I made a month ago, which may explain the unusual tone. Explaining ideas outside the political center take more work, and I try and save labor where I can.

I do care about the Democratic Party, the same way I care about the Republican Party. Regardless of my membership, their policies and actions have a significant effect on my life.

Ironically the Republican primary system allows their party to be highjacked by the far right, while the 'Democratic' system of super-delegates was specifically designed after the events of 1968 to prevent the left from accumulating similar influence. This is one in a long line of anti-democratic laws and institutions that have fueled the rise of fascism in America, and deserves criticism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That all would have been excellent context to add from the beginning and would have been the argument or call to action that would have made the post make sense no matter when it was originally posted. Without it, as can be seen in all the communities you posted this to, you just generated confusion and animosity.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Experiencing the confusion and animosity of others is a familiar feature of existing outside the political center.

I desire to be understood and respected, as evidenced by this conversation, but at some point, the confused and angry need to take responsibility for their ignorance and abuse.