this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2023

344 points (96.7% liked)

politics

18651 readers

3630 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

344

Jack Smith Has Set a Trap for Trump (statuskuo.substack.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

57 comments fedilink hide all child comments

And it’s based on his “advice of counsel” defense

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 133 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I hate the terminology of 'prosecutor set a trap' or 'perjury trap' if you remember when Mueller wanted to get Trump to testify under oath. It might be a trap in the sense of catching someone, but it gives off this sense of plotting and scheming to unjustly nab an unknowing innocent being that was just going about its business, like when you trap a rabbit or something.

It's not a trap. Trump doesn't have a good defense because he did do the thing he is accused of. A horseback cavalry charge against a machine gun isn't "a clever trap by the machine gunner" one side just has the tools to win, and the other side doesn't.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's much more like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing than a trap. Or a "backed yourself in to a corner" you might say, or, "completely fucked yourself and the prosecutor knows it and is going to use it". But it's only setting a trap in the sense that any airtight prosecution tactic based on rules and evidence that leaves the defendant no way out could be called a 'trap'

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I'd put just a bit more distance in there. Trap, to me, implies bait or deception being used to lure something or someone into a place or situation of your design.

Jack Smith did not design the situation that the defense team placed themselves in. I am reasonable sure he's overjoyed that they did.

The OP article does make a good case for exactly how that defense will fail in multiple ways, from a legal standpoint.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're right, the term dilemma would be better used here.

[–] [email protected] 103 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Just this image alone made me LOL!

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just came to the comments to say the same lol I love that aside from it being a checker piece, he's somehow already down to just one even though smith only moved one pawn one space lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Are you allowed to move a pawn just one space for its first move?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Same here, brilliant!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

It’s extra funny if you view it with 4D glasses on

[–] relative_iterator 46 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If we could lock him up before election season really kicks in that would be great… otherwise I’m scared for our democracy.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

First president elected from prison. The crazies uniting behind their martyr.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

Plot twist: he can still run (and be elected) from prison.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/06/trump-running-for-president-prison-00090931

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Won't happen.

First Republican debate is 8/23. We won't even have a trial date for the Jan. 6 stuff until 8/28.

Primary calendar is here:

https://www.frontloadinghq.com/p/the-2024.html?m=1

Trump has 2 trial dates set so far, New York in March and Florida in May.

1st trial is 15 days after Super Tuesday.

2nd trial is before just a handful of states.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Which is fucking insane why are they pushing the trails so far out?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Caseload. The D.C.courts have 800 cases pending for 1/6 alone, not counting any other crimes.

NY most likely has similar load issues. The Florida case has the added bonus of needing lawyers with security clearances.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Well, can't those 800 douches move to the back of the line? They should be making way for their leader.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Wow, 800 January 6 cases? That's going to make a lot of people happy.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

If you weren't scared before, you haven't been paying enough attention.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But why? Didn't Biden beat him? Not that I'm a fan of Biden, but the majority of Americans dislike Trump more than Biden.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The crazies have not been getting less crazy, and they're doing their best to convert as many fence-sitters as possible.

But its not just about who wins and who loses the presidential election. There's also down-ticket races, as well as the increased extremism that this ongoing spectacle is pushing on all parts of the political spectrum.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

If we could lock him up before election season really kicks in that would be great

Just going to point out that convicting and jailing him does not disqualify him from holding office, and would likely just embolden his base.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

“advice of counsel” is a tough defense to assert. It comes with some preconditions that could prove highly damaging to Trump as well as legal hurdles that the jury could quickly find render the defense unavailable to him.

one thing that disappears right away is your right to assert that your communications with those lawyers are “privileged.”

Skipping a bunch of the other items why it's tough and going for the trap:

flipping attorneys is problematic, normally, because even if they agree to squawk, prosecutors normally can’t put them on a stand and ask them to testify about communications with their client. That’s because the attorney-client privilege belongs to the client. It isn’t something attorneys by themselves can decide to waive.

But here, again by putting advice of counsel at issue, Trump himself has waived the privilege.

In short, Jack Smith appears to have leveraged the advice of counsel defense by naming a bunch of lawyer co-conspirators. This could permit him to crack open the black box of the conspiracies, should any co-conspirator cooperate.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I was in civil court before and almost fucked up by submitting previous emails from a former lawyer of mine. Glad my attorney caught it and mentioned the shitstorm it would start.

What I don’t understand is how someone who has been dealing with lawsuits his whole life could be so stupid?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Look who you're talking about. The man is highly capable of manipulating idiots and racists, but he's no mastermind

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

It is actually easier to manipulate people if you're ignorant and over-confident. It is much easier because you don't have to lie and adapt your speech, you just do you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

He can only manipulate people who want to be manipulated.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What I don’t understand is how someone who has been dealing with lawsuits his whole life could be so stupid?

He has $40 million worth of legal advice, it's not being stupid or uninformed. They're giving the best possible defense, and it's a very bad one.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Eh, he's not exactly hiring the best lawyers. In any other situation the best law firms would be jumping at the chance to defend a former president, but due to past behaviour (not paying, not following advice, committing additional crimes, asking lawyers to commit crimes for him), he's only hiring rubes and crazies.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

he hasn’t been dealing with lawsuits.

His lawyers have been dealing with lawsuits his whole life.

It’s the same with his businesses- the ones that are successful are successful in spite of him, because somehow he got someone competent to work under him.

But he really is an idiot, and totally incompetent at everything he touches. Except maybe reality tv, because people just eat up shitty assholes there

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's one thing he's good at: making assholes feel good about being assholes. That's the one thing he's built his entire political career on.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Absolute truth here. From the moment he got into office, it seems like "loudest asshole in the room" has become a persona every Republican has embraced.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

That closing phrase, though... 🤢😅

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Even then, he was surrounded by highly competent entertainment types who knew what they were doing. All Drump had to do was turn up and say his lines.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

came for the politics, stayed for the photoshop

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also the "Narrator" segments which are inexplicably read in Morgan Freeman's voice in my head

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

[Narrator]: that’s because I am Morgan Freeman, and I read this aloud, just for you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

is there any other option?!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ron Howard as in Arrested Development

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Definitely not Ron Howard as Opie doing the narration.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Narrator: But she did find that she was being honored at an award show dedicated to the achievements of young people in the entertainment business.

Maeby: I'm getting an Opie?

Narrator: And it did boost her esteem.

Maeby: Hey!

Narrator: The only bigger honor would be having an award like that named after you, I guess.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Narrator: There was no other option. It was Morgan Freeman all the way down.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Ron Perlman in his role as the narrator of the majority of the Fallout series is the default narrator for me. I've heard a lot of people also have Ron Howard as the Arrested Development narrator as their default internal narrator

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I assumed it was AI generated based on a prompt, but my apologies if I'm maligning anyone's art by saying that. It's a fantastic bit of art no matter how it was made IMO.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Photoshop. Sure.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

It’s completely possible for Trump to lose this case and have it thrown out or negated. This is a real and vital test for the rule of law. I am not confident the grand experiment in law and liberty will survive.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA Trump knowing how to play checkers hahahahaha

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

His opponent playing chess, Trump has a single checker piece in play on his side. This thumbnail goes hard tbh.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Trick that I expect Trump to pull that the article doesn't talk about:

Trump will pull presidential privilege, national security, or the ever popular "I don't remember" when asked to explain details.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"I plead Covfefe"

load more comments