this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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As the fediverse continues to grow, let's reflect on some of the things that we disliked most about posting/lurking on reddit and what we can do differently now that we have a chance to build something new.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 year ago (8 children)

downvoting for disagreement. people on reddit treat upvotes/downvotes as agree/disagree, when they really should be used to promote thoughtful and good content, not necessarily what you agree with. If you think someone is participating in a thread properly, and promoting and inviting discussion and making the place better (even if you disagree with them) you should upvote instead.

reddit all too often let "lazy" comments float to the top because they were agreeable with the masses, but low effort.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's a good point, but very difficult (maybe even impossible) to achieve. Downvoting to disagree is a kneejerk reaction that is very easy to do, so it's going to require a lot of self discipline to avoid - and I don't think you can expect that from most people.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don't even really think that there should be downvotes. Just different categories of votes, kinda like how Fark does comments with 'Smart' and 'Funny' votes.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Generally, shifting away from a binary system could be beneficial. What would be the options? What's enough but not too many options to cover the gamut? Maybe two types of positive ("I agree" and "This is quality") and two types of critical options ("I don't agree" and "This is poor quality") ?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I’m not sure I want to feel like I’m doing a psychological evaluation or political survey when I’m liking a post. Up and down is fine.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

That's part of the reason why platforms like Reddit took off: they're simple and easy to approach and people don't get overwhelmed at first sight

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Nothing sounds more fun than a paroxysm of analysis with every 'doot

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While a better system might be one where you can apply a range of reactions to a post, that would probably make things look cluttered and spammy (if a post has a dozen different reactions on it)

The upvote/downvote system seems like the most useful one, at least right now while people are migrating over and these sites are in the expansion phase

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

@AnonymousLlama I like forum software that offers a range of reactions (ala vBulletin / XenForo). The default reaction could be a simple "Like" with an additional click or two required to change the reaction to Informative, Agree, Funny, Sad etc. Two of these reactions (probably positioned last to add that extra little bit of friction) might be Disagree and Off-Topic.

But if this is too convoluted, maybe just cap the number of downvotes a post/thread can get. So if a post gets 5 (or whatever the cap number is) downvotes, additional downvotes do not change the downvote counter. This would discourage "piling on" but there'd still be an indicator that a post might be poor quality or contentious. On the other hand, upvotes should probably be unlimited (or have a higher cap number) to encourage positive feedback.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

unfortunately true. it would be nice to avoid though

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I avoid it on my instance by disabling downvotes

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Of course downvotes can be ironic such as the one I've just added....

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

For this to work, the upvote would likewise have to cease meaning "agree" and instead mean "good answer." Unfortunately that'd be a step too far for most people. At the end of the day, entertainment, not edification, is the primary driver for most people to be on social media. So they need a way to express favor for answers that are enjoyed even if they don't lead to deeper discussion.

Perhaps a three button system would work.

All that said, I also would love there to be less lazy comments.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Your expectation of what upvoting and downvoting represents does not match up with the most intuitive psychological interpretations are - and therefore, it is unrealistic.

However, I will also state that while the problem you perceive is more relevant for comments, having up/downvotes represent Like/Dislike is more appropriate at the Thread/Post level - as the idea for a subreddit is that content users like should be promoted and content they don't want to see should be demoted.

That makes it even more difficult because now you want the arrows to mean different things depending on the area they are used.

You will never break the link between voting and Like/Dislike. However, what you can do is have a separate control to indicate whether a comment is appropriate or not.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

stopping hatespeech at the root before it becomes a whole hate community. fascists can fuck off to truth social if they want to be bigots

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Which includes calling it out when you see it. No, "Well, maybe the next person will call them out" - You are a somebody, so call it out

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yeah this is why I'm not a big fan of sites that have "Free Speech" as their number one thing. You can't tolerate the intolerant and freedom from hate speech is more important than unchecked free speech.

We don't want to become Voat

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Hear hear. Zero tolerance for intolerance.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (10 children)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

This is the way.

(Not to be.)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

IMO if you wanna say "this" then write something more than that to elaborate upon it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

"I'm a simple man. When I see a 'this' I upvote."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Hey there IntangibleSloth! If you agree with someone else's comment, please leave an upvote instead of commenting "This"! By upvoting instead, the original comment will be pushed to the top and be more visible to others, which is even better! Thanks! :)

I am a bot! If you have any feedback, please don't send me a message! More info:

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Probably impossible to implement but, man, just way less reposting of the same stuff. I'm hoping a system that places less emphasis on "karma" will help?

I doubt the fediverse ecology will be any better (and maybe even worse) at (a) helping people prior content that, e.g., will answer a question they have and (b) have a system that encourages the reviving of prior posts rather then the propagation of the same content as a new post.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Nothing's going to stop that, unfortunately. It requires people to do some research first, and most just want to share whatever they found, or ask the question, etc.

Heck, I've been guilty of this

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (5 children)

creating magazines (and other subreddit analogues) with poor "humour" titles like those "X-masterrace" ones.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Yahtzee (of Zero Punctuation) coined the whole “PC Master Race” joke ages ago, and even he regrets it, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSJKffmWZSk

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"EDIT: Wow, didn't expect this to blow up"
"edit2: hahaha, my most liked post is now about <insert completely harmless topic here>"
"final edit: Thanks for the gold kind stranger :))"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Take my upvote, Sir!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Using voting on a post or comment like a yes/no poll. I think we should rather upvote if the comment is interesting, or related to topic and actually reply if we disagree with comment.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So... I shouldn't upvote this comment? I'm confused. :P

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stop making everything Political

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

We couldn't even make it one comment.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

can we stop calling everything porn?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Reply guys dropping in to conversation just to stir up a debate

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

No, I think that point is ludicrous.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

avoiding "self promotion" by posting links to your own blog. we should be moving away from information consolidation. if an instance goes down, you don't want all the quality content on it to disappear as well.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  • "funny" bots
    Like haiku bot, "all words are in alphabetical order", And character bots (think kenobi or vader bots in sw subs) that add nothing of value to the actual discussion.

  • reddit sings / ask oija
    Posting song lyrics line by line is kinda fun,
    But it also doesn't add anything of value.

  • this is the way / catchphrase spam
    Also void of any actual discussion.
    Just blind repetition.

  • negative subs
    This one is probably controversial but, Stuff like gamingcirclejerk, nicegirls/guys, gamingcirclejerk, enoughmuskspam.
    When you actually like the subject you just get the worst parts of it / its community rubbed in your face,
    If you dislike it, its just the worsts part of a thing you hate hilghted daily pissing you off.
    And imo if these subs lack an influx of "natural content", it becomes zealous, seething and unfair.
    Also the peak of irony always was, whenever enoughmuskspam was the only musk related post on r/all

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Deliverator

Probably habits will get imported, maybe isn't even such a bad thing, at the end of the day, a reddit alternative is what you want, a reddit alternative is what you will get.

Obviously we should seek towards creating healthier and way less toxic communities anyways.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

...seek towards creating healthier and way less toxic communities anyways

this is the main thing I want from a "reddit alternative", but since all the kbins/lemmys are being treated as "reddit alternatives" I really don't see this happening

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I would add greater actual engagement between people, like is occurring here, to that. Probably the two go hand in hand.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I think it could happen. Everything being federated means it gets spread out a hell of a lot more, so it may make it more difficult for such stuff to gain traction

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