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theKrissam at 2024-03-16 23:12:37+00:00 ID: kv7f52r
Essentially, there's a lottery and the result can be either "you're getting called in", "you might get called in" or "you won't be called in"
When I was called in it was around 22/22/56 split but it changes on a yearly basis.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-16 23:21:12+00:00 ID: kv7gep5
ah okay. so someone would only apply for conscientious objector status if they get called in the lottery, right? that's not something they'd do before the lottery?
and all men currently have to participate in the lottery if there aren't enough volunteers?
Bing2004d at 2024-03-16 23:32:38+00:00 ID: kv7i3fp
Yes your understanding is correct, and the way it is now the military is filled with volunteers alone so between 0 and 10 get "forced in"
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-16 23:35:11+00:00 ID: kv7igwn
that would be pretty crazy, though, right?
it's alllllmost full of volunteers, but like a handful of people -- like 10 people -- might still be forced to serve or do conscientious objector stuff?
wow, would be pretty annoying to be one of those unlucky 10?!
razgondk at 2024-03-17 05:38:43+00:00 ID: kv8tmc3
Looking to do a hit piece, mr. 'just curious '?
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 12:17:08+00:00 ID: kv9r0wm
lol, no. i'm not a journalist. just curious how these things work in countries that have them
NotMyRealUsername13 at 2024-03-17 06:24:49+00:00 ID: kv8xq5w
I haven’t actually met anyone who hated it AFTER it was over, thesay they got to chill doing something simple for a few months and that it wasn’t an awful way to spend part of a gap year.
Same with conscientious objectors who are(were?) asked instead to do something non-military for the 4 months. I think one guy worked in a kindergarten.
The few who went in for longer and took the leadership path really loved it and come out the other side with some really nice leadership tools. Our military’s leadership style is very modern and easily transfers to civilian life.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 12:18:54+00:00 ID: kv9r7rx
thanks!
GladForChokolade at 2024-03-17 07:42:27+00:00 ID: kv93yvp
I served against my will. I still did my time but chose something other than the military because I refuse to carry/use weapons. You won't be forced to do that if it conflicts with your personal beliefs. I suppose that can change that option. I'm not sure exactly how it is today.
theKrissam at 2024-03-16 23:26:18+00:00 ID: kv7h5nq
I would assume you could do it after, but I'm honestly not sure.
But all men, except those who are deemed unqualified for service, will have to participate, usually a couple months after turning 18, but it can be delayed if you're studying.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-16 23:32:18+00:00 ID: kv7i1mh
and if there are enough volunteers, they just don't conduct the lottery?
theKrissam at 2024-03-17 00:34:09+00:00 ID: kv7r680
I'm honestly not sure, but I would assume they do since it's part of a whole since not getting called in comes with a caveat that you still could hypothetically get called in in the future if a foreign nation declares war on Denmark and since the lottery is part of a whole event hosted by our military, so I assume it's kind of a "might as well" thing.
NotMyRealUsername13 at 2024-03-17 06:28:36+00:00 ID: kv8y1f9
The ‘lottery’ is a number that each person gets rather early in the process. If you’re number 1, you’re going in if they need even 1 person, etc. If you’re number 119.326, you’re in the clear…
After getting your number you could still volunteer and gain the benefits given to volunteers, like preferential postings, etc.
imSpejderMan at 2024-03-17 07:55:58+00:00 ID: kv950el
A smart person would wait until then, yes. A kid on my team during forsvarets dag refused to take any of the necessary tests and said that he wanted to be a conscientious objector beforehand. The guy in charge of the tests tried to talk him out of it, but he wouldn’t listen. Cause of that the guy explained that he would be forced to serve x-amount of time doing public service. I drew number 2 and wasn’t called in, but I volunteered myself after. The likelihood of being forced is very low, but looks like it could change with the proposed reform.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 12:21:01+00:00 ID: kv9rg5h
yeah, that doesn't make any sense, given he could have just chosen to do the alternative service if actually forced via lottery?
Bing2004d at 2024-03-16 23:29:02+00:00 ID: kv7hk6c
Now its only "you might get called in" and "you won't get called in" due to the incredible number of volunteers. The split is 1/3 to 2/3, but in reality unless you draw number 1 or 2 there is no chance of getting called in
Alternative_Pear_538 at 2024-03-16 23:08:07+00:00 ID: kv7eh52
You can say you don't want to, and you will have to do some other work for the same time ("militærnægtertjeneste"). The lottery exists as they don't have unlimited space, so even if you do want to go they can't take everybody.
The proposed policy doesn't change this, but of course, the amount of available spaces could easily be altered without any necessary policy changes, making the lottery a guarantee of a spot, if they wanted to do so.
Also, there's no doubt in my mind that they will soon remove the ability to refuse, as they are clearly aiming to get as many soldiers as possible. But that is not part of the current change.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-16 23:24:08+00:00 ID: kv7guae
By "remove the ability to refuse," do you mean remove the ability to do civil service as an alternative to military training?
Crazy_Recover_9649 at 2024-03-17 02:12:46+00:00 ID: kv85773
If you pull a low number, it means you (most likely) have to do the military service. You can refuse to do so, you have to apply to be "militærnægter" less than 8 weeks after the day of the lottery. The form is on the site of the link below. Afterwards you'll have to choose where you want to do your civil service. There's a list of organisations where you can do your service. All in all, they can't force you to do military service, but you have to do some sort of service for the community.
You can read all about it right here:
https://karriere.forsvaret.dk/varnepligt/varnepligten/militaernaegter/
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 02:20:20+00:00 ID: kv8691m
thanks!
i'm not Danish -- and sadly an old millennial now anyway -- but was just curious how this all worked in Denmark.
are the people forced to do it annoyed? i'd imagine it's a little annoying to be forced to do it when like 99% of the people are volunteering and just a handful of people are conscripted? or young people don't really care?
Crazy_Recover_9649 at 2024-03-17 02:36:56+00:00 ID: kv88jmj
A lot of people don't even get qualified for military service due to their physique, spelling/writing capabilities etc.
I would imagine a person who doesn't want to do it would get annoyed if they had to waste months of their lives on something they hate, but you COULD (although I don't encourage it) always cheat on your tests to make you seem bad at math or grammar. Not sure if it's illegal or not to do so, but they would have a pretty hard time exposing you for faking your intelligence level.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 02:59:52+00:00 ID: kv8bo69
Thanks. I'm not Danish, but was just curious how this all works.
Peter34cph at 2024-03-17 08:20:43+00:00 ID: kv96y7v
I've heard rumours that if you score very low on the Børge Priehn intelligence test, then it goes on your medical record, and will bar you from things such as applying for a driver's license.
I don't know if those rumours are true, but it would be a good deterrent against people deliberately trying to flunk that test.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-16 23:17:11+00:00 ID: kv7ftba
You can say you don't want to, and you will have to do some other work for the same time ("militærnægtertjeneste"). The lottery exists as they don't have unlimited space, so even if you do want to go they can't take everybody.
I'm a little confused. If there's a lottery, because there's more demand than supply for military training, why would anyone have to express a desire to do alternative service? Wouldn't the people who don't want to serve just not participate in the lottery? Or I'm missing something?
MightBeWrongThough at 2024-03-17 00:39:37+00:00 ID: kv7rzc0
As it is now, when men become 18 they are summoned to go to a military facility, where you have to do some tests to see if you're eligible, both a physical examination and a mental one like an IQ test kinda thing, this is also a huge source of data on the male population. After all these tests you are either deemed eligible or not, if you're eligible you will pick a number in the lottery and depending on the number you either are forced to join or not, 99% join voluntarily. I don't know why they do the lottery, or if the drafted can get out of service in some way, they can avoid military service by going to "beredskabet" which is like special emergency services, for stuff like fires or floods.
Also if you are drafted you can postpone you're service if you are studying.
Correct_Cobbler_4013 at 2024-03-17 00:31:58+00:00 ID: kv7qupj
You cannot opt out of the "lottery".
CrateDane at 2024-03-16 23:22:34+00:00 ID: kv7jw2o
My current understanding is that conscription in Denmark is basically voluntary. If you say you don't want to do it, they won't pick you? How exactly does that work if there's a lottery?
People who volunteer take up the empty spots. If there are more volunteers than there are spots, then nobody will be forced to serve, regardless of the lot they draw. But if fewer people volunteer, those with the worst lots will be forced to serve.
The new policy doesn't change that system directly, but the longer period of service and slight increase in number of conscripts will likely change the balance. Probably fewer people will volunteer for an 11 month period than for the current 4 month period, and since they're simultaneously slightly increasing the number that will serve, it's quite likely some will end up being forced to serve.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-16 23:57:14+00:00 ID: kv7lqku
thanks for explaining.
4 to 11 months is a big change! do you think the law will pass?
CrateDane at 2024-03-17 00:07:59+00:00 ID: kv7nbhn
It's hard to say, they may have to adjust it depending on how negotiations go.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 00:12:14+00:00 ID: kv7nxse
thanks for talking to me about this. what is your opinion of conscription in general? do you think it's actually necessary?
lastchansen at 2024-03-17 05:51:59+00:00 ID: kv8uu8k
It's has been 12 months earlier.. like back in 2005-ish. So, there have been some years with peace and now it's new times.
Old_Effective_915 at 2024-03-17 07:57:09+00:00 ID: kv953q2
Yes. The government holds the majority in parliament. It might get some small adjustments, but by and large, if the current government says something will become law, they'll already have talked it out amongst themselves, and so it will become law.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 12:21:52+00:00 ID: kv9rjmx
got ya
sp668 at 2024-03-17 08:55:33+00:00 ID: kv9bf3a
As long as the training capacity of the armed forces isn't a lot larger it's still going to be basically voluntary.
There's been too many volunteers compared to the need and capacity for educating them for a long time, even before the steepest cutbacks not many people were forced.
So unless we go back to having several divisions of infantry like in the cold war there's likely not going to be a need to force anyone. Or maybe if we go towards having a huge reserve force like eg. the Finns have. Then maybe it's going to happen but I've not seen anything like that yet. There's been talk of fielding a brigade soon, and that's honestly not much.
Also if all the new money is going to be used to improve conditions and actually make being a soldier a decent job I don't think we're going to run out of volunteers.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 12:23:58+00:00 ID: kv9rryb
thanks for explaining
Mindshitstorm at 2024-03-16 23:08:07+00:00 ID: kv99mvo
You can choose in what military branch you want to serve your conscription time, like the navy, airforce or the normal military, but you can also choose to serve in Beredskabsstyrelsen (Civil defence). Right now that is 9 months and i haven’t seen if that is getting changed. Beredskabsstyrelsen helps with large fires, flooding, chemical and other larger disasters. So if you do not want to go in the military and handle guns, you can choose this instead if you are forced in the lottery.
NCD_Lardum_AS at 2024-03-17 11:31:07+00:00 ID: kv9mh3f
normal military
You mean the army?
IN-DI-SKU-TA-BELT at 2024-03-17 09:18:05+00:00 ID: kvbjthx
If you say you don't want to do it, they won't pick you?
Here's how it worked for me:
I picked a really low number, the military person said that I'm almost guaranteed in with my low number but if I wanted a choice of where and when I wanted to serve I could pick which base to do my service at.
And then I was noted down as a "voluntary" because I did pick a base, and then the military releases stats saying they aren't forcing anyone anymore.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 19:10:54+00:00 ID: kvbk7f2
oh wow.
that's interesting...kinda dishonest.
what did you pick?
IN-DI-SKU-TA-BELT at 2024-03-17 19:12:09+00:00 ID: kvbkeyj
I picked the shortest amount of time (4 months) and where there were the least amount of waiting time to get it over with.
comments83820 (OP) at 2024-03-17 19:15:44+00:00 ID: kvbl0mu
ah okay. sorry that happened to you. was it traumatic or not that bad?
and some people had to do more than 4 months?
IN-DI-SKU-TA-BELT at 2024-03-17 20:41:48+00:00 ID: kvbzgmt
It was not traumatic and some of it was kind of interesting, but the pace of teaching is really slow.
I struggled with more of the physical things, and some others were struggling more with other stuff, it's interesting to learn group dynamics like that and apply it when training.