this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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[–] Habahnow 114 points 8 months ago (5 children)

So reasons include: politics (Lots of swing voters work in the auto manufacturing industry that would get pissed with an influx of chinese cars), national security (worries of the type of information Chinese cars would send back home), and lastly industry protectionism.

As much as this sucks, I kind of agree. We really don't want to rely on China until they prove to reliably not want to screw us. If this was Taiwan, Mexico, any country from the EU, etc. I would definitely want their cheap EVs to hit our market and bloody up the american manufacturers.

[–] IrateAnteater 60 points 8 months ago (3 children)

To add to the national security angle: the auto industry is one of the industries that would be able to pivot to wartime production the fastest (as seen in the world wars). Probably not the first thing on everyone's mind, but I'd bet it's at least part of the consideration.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Killing the planet so you can be ready for war.

God bless America.

[–] IrateAnteater 7 points 8 months ago (7 children)

What? Burning bunker oil to ship Chinese made cars across the ocean is better for the planet than manufacturing them domestically?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago

Oh I must have missed the press release where he announced much higher tariffs for all cars, including ICE ones, manufactured on the other side of the Pacific.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

Well. Yes, probably.

The environmental costs for shipping on a large container ship are, per unit, pretty low. China's already got the process for making cheap EVs down cold; we are still building our industry up, and it's slooooooooow. It's also more environmentally expensive to be duplicating processes rather than making scaling an existing process.

OTOH, the ability to wage war effectively is a compelling national security interest.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not to mention that China is pretty big into the "prepare for war" game too.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

To add a bit more to the national security angle: with the potential to escalate into open warfare with China, due to tensions between Taiwan and China, we really don’t want millions of drivable computers sending harvested metadata about our road systems and behavior patterns directly to enemy leadership.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)

i like how the US imposed the free market onto everyone else, bit now they are closing theirs for protectionism

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

What?

We make about 150,000 vehicles a month in America...

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DAUPSA

We sell about 150,000,000

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TOTALSA

If Biden if fucking over every other American to "protect" a few thousands jobs....

That's a bad choice.

For damn near everyone except the executives of companies who make most of their vehicles in Mexico anyways.

Like, if Biden is doing this to protect jobs, it's protecting jobs that went to Mexico decades ago.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/889529/mexico-automotive-production-volume/

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (10 children)

This isn't a few thousand jobs, auto manufacturing in the u.s. employs millions and millions more work in services or industries dependent on it.

Also union auto jobs keep wages high for other unskilled labor as it puts upward pressure on employers as they compete for workers, eg. Amazon may have to increase wages to compete with a unionized auto plant that got a raise with the recent negotiation, otherwise people might choose to work there. If that auto plant goes under though, or moves over to China, then there's a surplus of workers who need a job so amazon can lower wages cause they know they're desperate, this is how the middle class collapses.

Globalization encourages a race to the bottom for wages which hurts workers. That's why free trade deals like NAFTA/USMCA will have minimum wages put on auto manufacturing, and why it's better for cars to be manufactured in Mexico then in China, where no such minimum wage exists. Chinese cars aren't cheaper because their manufacturers are more efficient, its because their workers are more exploited.

We do need to transition away from gas cars, ideally to public transit, but absent that we can encourage EV adoption with subsidies and discourage gas car purchases with taxes without destroying the middle class.

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[–] BudgetBandit 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes, any country from the EU. Like the made in Balkan vehicles with those adidas stripes 👌

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

The stripes add 10 horsepower.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Prove me wrong that this has nothing to do with the fact that China became the world's biggest auto exporter last year and this is a desperate way for the US to try to protect their own auto industry.

Free market, my bottom.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

Well, it's more than that. China is actively trying to dump on the market. Selling things at a loss so they can kill and steal market share.

Sorta what Amazon did early on but on a global scale.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)

You do realise that you have described just now what all startups are doing in the US. Like look at WhatsApp, Facebook, etc. they were working for years if not decades on a massive loss in an attempt to more or less monopolize the segment, backed by the deep pockets of their investors.

And I think it is only fair if you demand the same level of scrutiny to all companies involved in such practices.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (3 children)

FREE* MARKET!

*=within the US

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Lol no, that hasnt been true for a long time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago
  • = within the US**

** = if you're born into money

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I made it too late to this thread and now all the top comments are corporate shill posts for the big 3 American OEMs who already outsourced the hell out of their production lines meaning none of their points about protection or votes has been valid for at least 15 years.

Even if Mexico magically invented their own cheap EV, you better bet the USA will have that blocked or at the very least smacked with a huge tariff for no reason beyond protecting some megacorp profits.

They already lobbied for all these stupid rules against JDM back when Japan proved it could make superior cars for cheap. Then, it took them decades to enter the US market locally by building factories and whatnot.

Biden is blocking because China bad and muh lobbyist profits, not because there's an actual issue of safety or security.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Same with Huawei, they blocked their phones and telecommunication equipment and never managed to show any proof that the Chinese government is actually snooping on their equipment.

And it is not like the US doesn't have a proven track record of pushing American suppliers to put backdoors and pretty much doing exactly what they accused Huawei and indirectly China of doing.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Every accusation a confession.

They accuse China of doing it because it's what they are or would do.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I think the new Chinese made Volvo is one of the more interesting cars coming out this year. It’s $35k… AFTER the 27.5% tariff on Chinese made cars. Meaning, Volvo is actually selling this for $27k. The car is super minimal inside, but manufacturing in China is clearly allowing them to reduce costs a shit load.

US auto manufacturing would be so screwed if these things could be sold without the tariff.

Edit: also worth noting, they’re going to be leasing these direct in many states. No dealer markup.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

US Auto manufacturers have screwed themselves and the US public with their current production values.

Happened in the 1970s, and Honda and Toyota ran wild. Unfortunately US automakers are more important, it seems, than those that bought their cars.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Fossil fuel production is the only reason he can say the economy is doing well.

We have record breaking production levels

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

It helps that we're still ran by geriatrics that literally have no stake in the world beyond the short term.

And American geriatrics largely despise the generations that came after them. Most not only don't want to plant trees whose shade they will never sit in, like those in a decent society would, they want to burn the trees they sat under out of spite and vanity. This tree is theirs, and all those trees over there! Make your own trees, filthy taker future people!

This is where encouraging greed and selfishness, oh I'm sorry, "rugged individualism and rational-self-interest" as our core cultural values leads, oblivion.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

We also can't understate the amount of lobbying that American "manufacturers" do even when their vehicles are assembled outside of America.

Corporate profits count for GDP, so cheap foreign cars that are good for consumers makes "the economy" look bad. Because it's all about how the wealthiest are doing, not how an average American is doing.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Whenever I hear the economy is doing well I generally just think that they mean the stock market is doing well. The economy of the working class's standard of living, health, and persuit of happiness is awful.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

Because China bad, obviously

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (5 children)

I mean we see their cheap shitty batteries catching on fire in bikes, hoverboards, phones, laptops.. Can you imagine their cars going up in flames?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

America numba one!

In oil production

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Not surprised, considering the equivalent tariffs on the import of solar modules under Biden, Trump and Obama.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Racism and chauvinism with corruption and cronyism mixed in

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (2 children)

If people want something they should be able to have it. If they are good enough for the EU they are good enough for the US.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

The EU also protects its manufacturers by taxing Chinese cars, but the tariffs isn’t nearly as punishing as America’s.

I’d love for the US to start by cutting the tariff to something more reasonable.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

because US can't compete with China

[–] newnton 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Almost like that’s part of how he won over the UAW and that Chinese EVs are a threat to US industry and our own migration on the industrial side from petrochemical to electric based manufacturing and infrastructure. I’m not saying that i agree with everything Biden has done in this space, but this is much more complex than Biden saying “I like the environment but hate China” and this article seems to oversimplify a bit.

Also it’s not like Chinese vehicles are banned, the Volvo EX30 is starting sales soon at 35000$, which is extremely cost competitive with current options in the US market despite being affected by the tariffs and not benefiting from US subsidies.

Here’s an article I read yesterday arguing the opposite side and pushing for even more stringent bans on Chinese EVs https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/opinion/gm-ford-electric-vehicles.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

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