It needs a redesign. No back ports (right side ports are the devil). Screen is old at this point (refresh rate & not oled). A new drop in panel might be possible, might not. Only one m.2 slot. Battery (physical size) is bad. Speakers probably need more of a redesign than the refresh they got. New generation hinge is still not good. Better, not good. Probably needs a redesign to catch up to the competition.
this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Framework
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Discussion around the Framework mission of building products that last longer by making them upgradeable, customizable, and repairable. Consumer electronics can be better for you and for the environment.
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Why? All your points can be achieved with replacements, a new motherboard with two m.2 slots but the same physical size, should be doable maybe not now but someday. New panels will come along as well as batteries and even better hinges. And your point with the screen, i know plenty of laptops with way worse screens (i work in IT, so I've seen hundreds of laptops) so why old? It's not the very best, yes but it's still great
"right side ports are the devil"
yeah ok. you know that other people exist, right?
If the mother board fits most of your compatibility should be solved, unless I’m missing something
This! Motherboard needs to fit but if they had different gens of smaller parts that wouldn't be too bad. Maybe slightly confusing to ensure fit but also not worried there with their qr codes and being fully open and transparent
I'm fairly certain that Framework will do its best to make everything backwards and forwards compatible. A redesign will probably result in different casing or different bezels and screens. If the overall size of the laptop remains the same, I would bet that Framework would just release a new top cover + screen set or something like that.
I think it would be cool to see different colours of casing at some point... Surely it wouldn't cost too much.
I think it would be cool to see different colours of casing at some point... Surely it wouldn't cost too much.
I think there are dbrand skins for the FW13
There are but they absolutely don’t offer nearly the same look or feel of anodized metal (that’s not to say they look bad, I have one on mine).
Framework have categorically said they won't offer colours, due to the environmental impact.
I would think the only thing they would abandon with their designs so far (based on their youtube series) would be the expansion card size. It should be credit card width so they could have smart card authenticators integrated into an expansion slot. It would have then made the SD card issue moot but would have made the other cards less space efficient.
Since smart card authentication is literally the only thing I can think of never fitting in an expansion slot, it could also be integrated into an input cover which doesn't have that design restriction.
Tbh I see smart cards dying first then the expansion modules. For something that bulky you don't need a port. You want a whole external device.
If they do that, they very likely lose me as a customer.
It's all relative to the length of time and execution. Like if it was 20 years, wouldn't that be enough?
Also you don't know, what you don't know. I bet there's a tonne of things now I wish they could change but can't.
So I'd be interested in a v2 if that gives more opportunities for modifications, better cooling or sound, ortho layout, etc.
Best situation would be to offer a v2 while still maintaining support for v1.
It really comes down to execution and timeframe. If they abandoned the current chassis design tomorrow it would be a problem. It's hard to predict exactly where things will be in 10+ years and to expect that the current chassis will be the best design for a computer in 2035 is very hopeful. At some point the current chassis might be a technology limiter preventing adoption of some new standard that most people will want.
I'd hope even if they launch a new chassis they continued to make new boards for the old chassis for a period of time. I'd expect in the end they will continue to make new boards for the current chassis until there isn't enough sales to justify it. Maybe in later years of chassis support they might skip some generations of CPUs and only launch a new board every few years or something. I'm hopeful of many years of support for the current chassis and a fair amount of overlap if they adopt a new chassis.
At some point there probably will be some incompatibility. They will learn from experience and might find a big change is necessary.
I hope that they would take a stepping stone approach. If they tweak the screen size then you could replace the top lid, screen, etc without replacing the bottom.
Perhaps when a motherboard redesign is required they launch the new version whilst keeping the old for a couple more generations to help transition.
Change will be necessary at some point. Hopefully they make it as pain free as possible.
I feel like change might come in the form of adding ports or, at worst, removing the headphone jack in favour of adding more flexibility, as they did with the Framework 16 design. In that case, I could see transitional motherboard designs that accommodate a USB4 socket and a cable connector for the audio (space permitting). Eventually the lower part of the case would need to be replaced for newer designs, but that doesn't necessarily require that the keyboard, display, and other assemblies need to be replaced.
I'd probably be fine using an inline USBC DAC to analogue controller along with Bluetooth (though I like the headphone port on principle and currently use it).
Look at the MacBook. It's been roughly the same size for how many years now?
Do they use the same motherboard for all of the different chassis sizes?
it's not exactly the same though, which is what matters if you want to make parts compatible
Best example is probably the MacBook Air from 2008, which kept the same design for a decade.
I've always wondered about the approach. If you buy a car then you can usually expect to be able to buy genuine parts for X years, followed by OEM parts for Y years.
If they redesign, it might make sense to open source the design of the older model so those that are content with current design can still buy or even make parts themselves. I guess the issue will be whether you can get those parts, like a 4:3 screen in the future.
I've bought mine this year, if I can keep it going through upgrades/repairs until 2030 I'd be happy, if I can get to the point that it's a ship of Theseus, even better.
I expect they will yes, but they might do this gradually, eg release a new screen assembly that is not compatible with the existing edge trim.
From internals they already have this with the AMD upgrade requiring you to update other internal parts. like wifi etc
You don't necessarily have to replace the WiFi, although Framework has been recommending it. The AX210, which was in DIY 11th gen and all 12th gen systems, will work in an AMD system. The AX201 (pre-built 11th gen) and AX211 (13th gen) will not. You have to replace the RAM because of the switch to DDR5, but it's likely that 14th gen Intel will also require DDR5 and 15th gen certainly will.
i hope they’ll expand in future more gpus, intel options in the 16 and eventually arm laptops with nvidia gpus. thats the dream
Unless there's any major pain point with the current design, they will keep it. I could see them making a shell that has more slots for expansion cards, and make it so that future mobos could take advantage of that, or just have some.inaccessible slots if stuck into an OG shell.
I've thought about this a lot before buying my AMD framework. The design is fairly dated now. It's not as thin or light as I'd like to see in a late 2023 laptop but to me that's acceptable for the flexibility of the expansion cards and only having to carry two extra cards (Ethernet and HDMI).
But I would assume after the 16 is in production and released to the public then a redesign of the 13 will be on the cards. I would also assume they will keep the same motherboard design. Which ultimately is the point of framework, to reduce ewaste. Probably keep as many parts as possible from the existing model and offer the new chassis to existing customers?
The system can't get much thinner so long as it still has socketed RAM, SSD, WiFi, etc. Systems that are even thinner lack those things, so they are anathema to Framework's philosophy of being repairable and upgradeable.
I would like a 2-in-1 version of the same form factor. They can keep the general layout of the innards but modify the screen, upper end of the body, and the hinge.
Nobody's gonna read this but I think that if the ARM revolution happens, and they figure out a way to keep the same chassis and everything, then it'll never change
Perhaps they release a new version that’s compatible with the old motherboard
i don't think it makes sense to have a new generation that has no single part compatible with the current one because the current one doesn't really have specific flaws overall that can't be addressed by a new part, and so far it has happened (top cover, speakers, hinges).
personally i don't even think the fw13 has saturated the customisation possibilities (new screens, ARM, etc.), which probably says more about how boring the laptop world has become, rather than fw's limitations.
I imagine they'll keep the mainboard form factor around for as long as possible. It's pretty neat to think eventually they'll redesign the chasis and we can just plop our main boards into the new design. Basically like moving your PC components to a new case!
Eventually? Yes.
Soon? No.
Keep this in mine from the Framework 'About' page:
Even better, what we’ve done to enable repair also opens up upgradeability and customization. This lets you get exactly the product you need and extends usable lifetime too.
Repairability and upgradeability are central to who they are as a company. Changing the case design from FW13 to FW13.2 breaks that.
I'd imagine their case designs were created with some attempt to look forward and not design themselves into a corner. At the same time, things evolve and at some point a very compelling reason for a case design change may come along. But I cannot envision this company undertaking a redesign lightly.
It would be nice to see a slightly larger screen and smaller bezels. But it might not be possible to achieve that with a screen that is screwed in rather than glued.
My hope is that they'll find a way to evolve rather than abandon. For example, imagine they made an alternative bottom case that totally replaced the existing bottom case, but added the ability to mount an alternative top case attached by a 360 hinge, or a tablet top case that replaces the keyboard while using that same new bottom case. (and supporting an MS surface style keyboard)
That new version could then be sold as a laptop or a tablet and be converted between the two fairly easily, while owners of the original could still upgrade to the new version just by replacing their bottom case.
I also think the most likely case for forcing a redesign is advanced cpu architecture shrinking the MB and providing more battery space. If that bottom case can be made to house either the old internals or the new, that would be ideal but probably not likely.