this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024

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-41

Valve fans are like Apple fans (self.linuxhumor)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by lemmeee to c/[email protected]

23 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/15970074

Valve:

popularized DRM on PC

killed the used games market on PC

bans people for selling their Steam account

contributed to popularizing microtransactions, loot boxes and Battle Pass

forces you to run a proprietary app to play your games

forces updates on you

pretends they invented Wine

ships devices with a proprietary SteamOS

forces devs to use proprietary libraries to use Steam's features

Gamers:
Yes uncle Gaben more of that please!!!

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 9 months ago (1 children)

DRM was already a thing on Pcs, and Valves was less intrusive as a player at the time.

I didn't participate in the used games market, but the steam sales are like paying used game prices.

I must have missed how vavle contributed to lootboxes and microtransactions, was that in their games?

Updates are turned on by default, but honestly moat games need the regular updates and steam made those so much easier.

The devices with steamOS installed are sold to distribute steamOS....

f course they have to use proprietary libraries to use features. That is how it works...

Some of those are true while being a reasonable tradeoff for the convenience. The only one I see as an absolute negative is the banning for selling accounts.

[+] lemmeee -14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

DRM was not popular on PC before Steam became popular. It used to be possible to buy physical copies of games without DRM. On consoles that is still the case.

I didn’t participate in the used games market, but the steam sales are like paying used game prices.

I don't know, but you can't sell your game anymore if you get bored of it, so it's still a loss. Games are overpriced most of the time only to have a -75% off sale a few times a year.

I must have missed how vavle contributed to lootboxes and microtransactions, was that in their games?

Yes, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, CS:GO.

Updates are turned on by default, but honestly moat games need the regular updates and steam made those so much easier.

They have also removed content from people's games.

The devices with steamOS installed are sold to distribute steamOS…

Which is proprietary software.

f course they have to use proprietary libraries to use features. That is how it works…

So I can't release a libre game on Steam and use those features. I can't compete on the same level with proprietary games.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

DRM was not popular on PC before Steam became popular. It used to be possible to buy physical copies of games without DRM. On consoles that is still the case.

Apparently you don't remember SafeDisc and all the bullshit for PC games in the 90s which required physical discs. All kids of games had DRM that was not the same as always online DRM, but was actually even more annoying than what we currently have.

I don’t know, but you can’t sell your game anymore if you get bored of it, so it’s still a loss. Games are overpriced most of the time only to have a -75% off sale a few times a year.

Games are still mostly $60 or less like they have been for decades, and 75% is cheaper than my friends bought used games a couple decades ago. The sales let me buy so many more games than I did before steam at an overall lower cost.

Hell, I can still games that are a couple decades old while games in the late 90s/early 2000s were hard to get working after a few years because of DRM.

Everything else is a tradeoff, but your memory is failing if you think PC gaming was a better and cheaper experience before steam.

[–] lemmeee -5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Apparently you don’t remember SafeDisc and all the bullshit for PC games in the 90s which required physical discs.

I do remember and it restricted the user way less than Valve's DRM. What kind of argument is this anyway? We were also abused in the past (just less), so abuse is good?

All kids of games had DRM that was not the same as always online DRM, but was actually even more annoying than what we currently have.

Inserting a disc (or mounting it is an ISO) is more annoying than installing a proprietary app on every device and logging in to your account? To me it isn't, but that's subjective. Valve's way is certainly more unethical, though.

Everything else is a tradeoff, but your memory is failing if you think PC gaming was a better and cheaper experience before steam.

It certainly was better, since our rights were abused less. I can't tell if it was cheaper, though. But since you used to be able to sell games that you no longer played, I assume that it was. I can't sell my Steam games or trade them for other games.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I do remember and it restricted the user way less than Valve’s DRM. What kind of argument is this anyway? We were also abused in the past (just less), so abuse is good?

Being abused less is an improvement.

Inserting a disc (or mounting it is an ISO) is more annoying than installing a proprietary app on every device and logging in to your account?

Yes, but only because valve has made it seamless for me. If they go the route of media streaming services are currently going then it wouldn't be.

It certainly was better, since our rights were abused less. I can’t tell if it was cheaper, though. But since you used to be able to sell games that you no longer played, I assume that it was. I can’t sell my Steam games or trade them for other games.

I never bothered to sell a PC game. My friends that sold games barely did, and didn't get a reasonable amount when they did. Console games sold reliably, but were still a mediocre return on games that rarely dropped much in price even when used.

If you want DRM games then GoG has you covered, go with them. I don't because it would be slightly less convenience at the same price for no real benefit to me. They should exist and I'm glad they do, but that doesn't mean that every storefront needs to be the same if there are benefits worth the tradeoff.

[–] lemmeee -2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They should exist and I’m glad they do, but that doesn’t mean that every storefront needs to be the same if there are benefits worth the tradeoff.

But you are not getting any extra benefits. Whatever you are getting can be achieved without DRM and with free software. Valve is just screwing you over, because they can. Instead of admitting it, you choose to defend them for some strange reason.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ok, I'll just enjoy the benefits I already mentioned that apparently don't exist.

[–] lemmeee 2 points 9 months ago

As I said, in this case you could have both convenience and freedom. You just don't care enough to try to change your situation. Most gamers do the same and that's why the game industry is so bad.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I remember not being able to sell PC games second-hand in 2005 due to all the DRM on it, long before Steam became as ubiquitous as it is today

Also I'm pretty sure SteamOS is just a fork of Arch with drivers specifically designed for the deck's controls. Hell, there's a fork of SteamOS that AFAIK gives you the same experience as SteamOS (HoloISO), which wouldn't be possible with proprietary software

[–] lemmeee 1 points 9 months ago

SteamOS is proprietary software.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS