this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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politics

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It makes them feel better to think it's just online leftists doing purity politics rather than a deeply angered population who have been giving him every opportunity to turn away from this and mostly just treated as an inconvenience.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's either online purity politics or damn near zero understanding of consequences.

"I don't like what Biden didn't do for Palestinias, I'm going to help someone who would be way worse for Palestinians! Yay!"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If I shoot your son and explain credibly why the other guy would have also shot your daughter, that’s a cold comfort.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

To be clear, you're choosing the guy who'd shoot both?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I’m explaining why people don’t want to choose either, because both of them will kill their children.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, failing to choose means choosing the worse option.

Though, had all the young pro Palestine leftists bothered to show up during the 2020 or 2016 primaries, there might be a more progressive president and thus a better set of choices. Unfortunately, showing up to the primaries seems anathema to the under 30 crowd, hence, two terrible choices.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You may not like it, but that’s democracy- even progressive people you wish would vote for Biden might not, even if it means trump wins. Some of them are accelerationists who will vote for Trump directly, no matter how ill advised that may be.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And that's their right!

BUT, to complain about the effects of their own choices is absurd.

"I made a conscious decision to not vote progressive and now a centrist politician is enacting centrist policies with entirely predictable outcomes! How could this have happened?!?"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Luckily the people in this article are making their voices heard, looking for a more progressive option. I think people will complain no matter who gets voted in, especially if a person they didn’t vote for won. But I don’t know that people who are voting against Biden because of Palestine will wish he had won if trump wins, I think they might wish Biden had taken this hint and acted differently, but that’s not the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Luckily the people in this article are making their voices heard

And if they'd done so in the primaries, that change might have done some good for Palestineans.

But I don’t know that people who are voting against Biden because of Palestine will wish he had won if trump wins, I think they might wish Biden had taken this hint and acted differently, but that’s not the same thing.

Not the same thing to us rich westerners, no. And it's not the same to the Palestineans who would suffer worse with a trump presidency.

This position makes zero sense. If you give a damn about Palestineans and the worse option wins, how could you not wish the better option had won?

The folks considering not voting either don't actually give a damn about Palestinean well being or are mind bogglingly counter productive.

There is no universe in which someone is simultabeously: a) genuinely concerned about Palestineans B) considering not voting Biden because of Palestine and C) has at least the intelligence of a turnip.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This is the primary.

I don’t think you understand how bad things are under Biden- would you actually vote for someone under whose approval your relative thirsted to death? If so, congratulations on your compartmentalization ability. That would be essentially endorsing those actions and many, many people aren’t able to do that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This is the primary.

Against an incumbent. The meaningful primaries were 2020, 2016.

would you actually vote for someone under whose approval your relative thirsted to death?

"My relative died, who cares if my choices actively make things worse for those who are still alive?"

Sucks to have that sociopath as a relative I guess.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I know! It is, at best, sociopathic to deliberately make things worse for people you claim to care about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Very clever. I mean that you are demonstrating no empathy for people who have lost a great deal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You're infantalizing these people.

We both agree on these two facts right:

  1. Trump would be worse for Palestineans.
  2. Not voting helps trump.

So, the question really is do you think so little of these folks that you think they can't comprehend those basic facts? Do you believe they are incapable of simple logic? Or do you think they are sociopaths? Or do you actually think they are disingenuous about their feelings for Palestineans?

Out of the two of us, I'm the only one dignifying these people as functional, albeit grieving, adults. If you'd ever had to deal with the mountains of paperwork following an unexpected death you'd know that grief doesn't turn you into a child.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

We don’t agree on those two facts.

  1. I don’t know if I truly believe there will be Palestinians by next January, so I don’t know if trump could be worse for them. If he takes office, he might be more enthusiastic, but I don’t think Netanyahu will stop as long as someone in the White House supports him. When Biden does it while holding his nose, it’s not less useful support.

  2. Not voting may help trump or Biden, depending on your jurisdiction.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Oh boy, those are some pretty silly arguments. I can see why you're supporting this nonsense then.

  1. Some 30,000 Palestineans are estimated to have died since October. You could have double that number die _every month _until January and there would be 4+ million Palestineans.

Unless what, you think Bibbi is going to start dropping nukes? Really?

  1. Come on, that's just the dumbest idea. Explain how an otherwise democratic voter, the type of voter whom the damn article is about, not voting somehow helps Biden.
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You’re rude to me too! How fun. This is my last reply.

I absolutely see the escalation that has already occurred from each month to the next and understand how things could get much worse, much more quickly, without nuclear bombs (think about Dresden).

A progressive voter in a solid blue area who will not vote for Biden but may have voted in this primary could absolutely help him by not voting for a third party candidate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Except, Dresden had a population of 600,000 and lost ~ 25000 people and many folks lived there throughout and after the war. Just like Palestinians will. And of course, if you read the news you'd know that Israel aims to have the bulk of their boots on the ground phase before the summer.

Biden but may have voted in this primary could absolutely help him by not voting for a third party candidate.

This is just silly. You might as well say Biden is actually helping Palestinians by not having the American military bomb Gaza.

I think at this point, you know how nonsensical your position is, you just don't have the maturity to admit it. At least, I hope that's what's up. Because these are truly childish arguments and if this nonsense is what we on the left have to offer then we deserve to lose elections.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

People have outright stated to me that they are doing purity politics. While I cannot prove that every single person I suggest is likely doing so, is actually doing so, I am not making such claims in a vacuum.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You took a handful of anecdotes from your online life and decided "I understand the electorate"? Do you think ~15% of Michigan is online leftists?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Any excuse necessary to continue support for genocide. It's interesting to see the very first policy centrists don't immediately abandon when they encounter pressure.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago

I took a handful of anecdotes from my online life and decided that people I encounter online have a decently high probability of being more examples of the same thing.