this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
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There's a meme being debated right now that says McDonald's workers in Denmark make $22 U.S. per hour plus they have 6 weeks of vacation.

Is this accurate? U.S. McDonald's workers make much less than this.

Can you work at a fast food place like McDonald's and have a decent standard of living?


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The original was posted on /r/denmark by /u/drbootup at 2024-02-14 01:29:18+00:00.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Onefoldbrain at 2024-02-14 01:48:09+00:00 ID: kqbs3mx


Taxes are also much higher and cost of living is (on average) a bit higher in Denmark. It's hard to compare on salary alone. But I believe ALL low income jobs in Denmark are better than those in the USA. I've never heard of someone needing two jobs in Denmark.

If you want low income jobs to be better, then you should stop all the illegal immigration. It's an endless stream of low income workforce that keeps the salary pushed down unnaturally. You are not helping immigrants - you are helping McDonalds. Legal immigration is good for everyone. Illegal immigration is bad for everyone except companies that rely on low salaries.

You might agree or disagree. I'm just pointing out that the problem is bigger and more complex than anyone can reliably explain why the US is the way it is. We have no minimum salary laws in Denmark. It's a complex dance of supply and demand of the workforce.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sunyaev-Zeldovich at 2024-02-14 05:30:20+00:00 ID: kqcjl1e


While it sounds plausible there’s not a fixed amount of work to be done, so it’s not true in general that immigration pushes wages down. This common misconception is called the fallacy of lump labor. See

Also, in general on the macro level immigration has been a net positive for the US economy . Immigration has to a significant degree expanded the pool of workers in the working age - which can account for most of the difference in economical performance between EU / US

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Onefoldbrain at 2024-02-14 07:46:39+00:00 ID: kqcw2r0


You are linking to pay-walled opinion piece from a left-leaning newspaper. That does not make it a fact. It's just you agreeing with another opinion on the left.

Salary dumping/social dumping is very real. We see it all over Europe. Polish truckers can't compete with Ukranian truckers. We are fighting it actively in the EU.

Here's actual information and not some biased opinion: Briefing European Parliamentary Research Service (europa.eu)

You say that immigration has been a positive for the USA and that is true. I also said that legal immigration is positive. It is also positive in the EU. We NEED immigration. What I am saying, is that illegal and uncontrolled immigration is social dumping/salary dumping. You are hurting your poorest citizens and helping your richests citizens.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Sunyaev-Zeldovich at 2024-02-14 10:33:23+00:00 ID: kqd8zxr


While you may discredit the New York Times for being a left-leaning paper, I will just have to say that nobel laureate Paul Krugman is a respected economist nevertheless.

You’re right to a degree of course on the social dumping part - it can lead to a downward pressure on wages in some cases. However, it's definitely a stretch to blame the problem of the working poor primarily on immigration. See https://www.usccr.gov/files/pubs/docs/IllegImmig_10-14-10_430pm.pdf for a bipartisan briefing. On page 9:

Illegal immigration to the United States in recent decades has tended to depress both wages and employment rates for low-skilled American citizens, a disproportionate number of whom are black men. Expert economic opinions concerning the negative effects range from modest to significant. Those panelists that found modest effects overall nonetheless found significant effects in industry sectors such as meatpacking and construction. [Approved (5-1): Chairman Reynolds and Commissioners Gaziano, Heriot, Kirsanow, and Taylor voted in favor; Commissioner Yaki voted against.]

  1. To be sure, factors other than illegal immigration contribute to black unemployment. The problem cannot be solved without solving the problems of the high school dropout rate, high rates of family instability, and low job-retention rates. Moreover, halting illegal immigration is not a panacea even for the problem of depressed wage rates for low-skilled jobs.

Regarding immigration - also illegal - being a net positive effect from an economical point of view. From the same briefing:

Three of the panelists who were economists argued that immigration, both legal and illegal, has economically benefited the United States on a national basis in the form of lower prices to consumers and increased economic investment in the country

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Boison at 2024-02-14 06:26:58+00:00 ID: kqcp9bl


Immigration also creates demand for food. It's not the issue here. The issue is that Americans don't have unions at anything near the level of ubiquity of Denmark. Workers are powerless because they are alone.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Onefoldbrain at 2024-02-14 07:51:06+00:00 ID: kqcwfjh


If you had unions and got a better pay. Then people would start using even more illegal immigrants because they are even cheaper now. Unions isn't the answer to everything. You need unions and a functional border.

The demand for food argument is stupid.