this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
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Mildly Infuriating
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Paying for servers based off of the price of the food just doesn’t make sense to me. If I order a super expensive caviar and super expensive bottle of wine the staff would be paid more than another server with large party that only orders inexpensive drinks. The second server would be paid less for doing more work.
I think they should just be paid a decent wage for doing their job well despite what the customer decided to order.
On a side note if the server has to do something like prepare a salad table side or flambé a dessert they should get a bonus for doing that.
I worked as a server at olive garden many years ago. They famously had their soup, salad, and breadsticks deal for like $6 something. People would run us ragged getting more of each thing. And we'd be lucky to get a $1 or 2 because the price was so low, but it was vastly more work than regular food.
Where I live, there's no separate minimum wage for tipped positions. It's the same as the regular minimum wage. Even so, it's still customary to tip, but just for some jobs. It's never made sense to me that it's customary to tip a Doordash driver but not a casual FedEx or UPS employee when the latter likely has more work to do and stricter deadlines to do it.
Do you want corporate efforts to reduce delivery driver wages and processes to demand you pay their wages through delivery tips? Because I am sure are ready to go on this endeavor as soon as you want.
As far as I know, some of the casual/seasonal drivers (extra delivery drivers for holiday deliveries) don't get paid much more than minimum wage. I'm not talking about the unionized employees.
My overall point was that there's many jobs that get paid minimum wage, so why are only some of them tipped? It would be more consistent to either be all tipped, or not tipped.
It’s not going to the server, not unless the city has a minimum wage, or something. But any thing over that is 100% going to managment’s coffers.
ALL cities in all states have a minimum wage for all workers. By federal law
Yes. But some cities (or states, even,) specify another-higher minimum.
Since you want to be pedantic… most cities don’t have a minimum wage established; deferring instead to federal or state law.
What percentage tip results in negative money?
It's a tip pool. So for instance I serve a meal to a couple. The meal is $50. They tip 10%. That split means I pay (for instance) the bartender out of the $5 tip $2.50. If I get another table that orders drinks and tips nothing I end up splitting nothing. But if I work with 4 other back of house people and they each get an equal percentage of that $5 then I get a dollar. But then that dollar is taxed because tips are taxed. If the company has a policy for shares tips pooling I could legitimately make $100 in tips and not receive $100 in tips. Technically that would be receiving negative tips because what is earned vs what is paid out is so drastically different.
In addition I've experienced back of house workers (cooks) getting paid out of the tip pool but the brunt of tax on the tips is not paid by them. This is absolutely tax fraud. But I'd also argue that tip pools are a form of wage theft and companies that engage in one are way more likely to engage in the other.
That isn’t negative tips. The lowest you can make in tips is $0. Even when tip pooling, the lowest you can make is $0, which requires no tips what so ever to have been given. There is no 100% tax rate, and you are at no point ever paying into the tip pool out of your own pocket.
I understand what you're saying. But for a person who is now down from $5 to $2.50 to a $100 that is then taxed you're effectively making less money than you earned. That's why you can have negative net even while making take home pay.
But think about what might happen if the bill is paid incorrectly in cash. The company will absolutely take cash tips to compensate in the event that you or someone else messed up when counting the cash or giving change or whatever. With tip pools it's unlikely. But it has happened.
Wait, you're taxed on money you didn't earn?
Apparently Federal Law sort invalidates the legality of a tip pool altogether because the tip only counts as a tip if the person who tips determines who the tip is given to and how much and it's non compulsory. But a lot of places ignore that as well.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/state-laws-tipped-employees.html
Management was stealing wages from you, comitting tax fraud
Thst is not how taxes work, and if they’re reporting it that way they’re breaking the law.
It's technically tax fraud, but yes. You could be. Back of house staff can include managers, cooks and dish washers, and even the hostess. Those people aren't paid the $2.75 to $3.75 that the wait staff are paid. They're considered hourly employees and they fall under different pay requirements under the law. A business that doesn't augment the amount of pay for wait staff not making the federal minimum wage ($7.25) an hour in tips, that business is committing wage theft. To then be paying non-wait staff out of the wait staff tips is illegal as part of the wage theft. But since the company is already committing wage theft there's no reason not to commit tax fraud to cover up the wage theft.
Managment can not legally be part of tip pools in the US,
Please read the above thread because I recognize that it is illegal, but so are tax fraud and wage theft.
I did. The thing is tip pools themselves aren’t inherently illegal. They’re doing illegal things with the tip pool. There is a distinction there.
I don't think you know how numbers work. Why would they be paying coworkers out of a tip that never existed?