politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
https://a.lemmy.world/lemmy.world/comment/4798739
For everyone else:
That's giving me an API error. What's the readers digest version?
If you want someone to lose rights, convict them of a felony or revoke their bail as a danger to society. Neither of these things were done in this case, so this isnt' a 2A case, it's a due process case.
The way I see it is that no one is being deprived of due process. If your guns were removed you will still have your day in court. Timing is incredibly critical on situations like theses. I value someone's right to live over someone else's right to possess guns. Specially since they can petition a court to review their case and if it doesn't meet the standard establishmented by law then the guns can be returned with no permanent damage done to the gun holder. To me the due process argument is a wrapper for a 2a argument.
You do understand you're putting the burden on the person whose rights are being restricted without them having "had their day", right? That's... kind of the whole problem.
If we had some sort of standard for ample evidence etc. for such civil matters I might be more inclined to agree, but restraining orders can be laughably easy to obtain in places.
If you get caught drunk driving your license is revoked before your day in court. There are many instances of society restricting rights before your day in court. Perhaps no one should ever be in jail by your logic before being convicted.
As the other person highlighted that is a restriction on a thing which is quite the opposite of a constitutionally-protected right.
You might want to brush up on the difference between the two subjects.
So your saying that freedom from detention is not constitutionally protected? I am getting a little sick of these constitutional revisionist and 2nd amendment nutters.
They don't have to petition. POs have hearings. That IS due process.
Want to keep your guns? Stop being a dick and present as someone with the self-control that society has decided is required to own one.
I see we're intentionally disregarding the civil part being insufficient and the lack of proof being required along with the inconsistencies.
Want to take away someone's rights? Provide proof beyond reasonable doubt regarding the guilt of a crime.
The right to bear arms is a conditional right. One of those conditions is being someone who is capable of responsible ownership. Threatening the safety of another person is a lack of that trait.
Point to the portion of the 2nd amendment that spells this out.
It doesn't have to be in the 2nd amendment to be law.
Oh? Was that from the Lost Chapter of the Bill of Rights?
Then a person should have no difficulty with the assault and/or battery conviction or the significant evidence in support of an ERPO and proving it, justifying the infringement on a right.
It's hard to prove that when you're dead.
Ah, falling back on the "dEaD cHiLdReN" parallel - neat.
Yes I completely understand that. I think the prophylactic benefit outweighs the inconvenience. Due process is there when the order is originally given and there is a method of redress.
Due to the sheer extent to which this is currently open for abuse (e.g. see prior link), I entirely disagree.
This is a problem common to ERPOs and is part of why they're so strongly resisted - tranpling a person's rights requires extreme diligence and emphasis on restoration of those rights. Putting the burden on the individual whose rights have been wrongfully infringed upon to regain their rights through procedural bullshit is a complete inversion of burden of proof, is a vector for harassment and abuse itself, and approaches enabling bans by incremental erosion of rights.
If there was conclusive data to indicate such measures would impact domestic violence - not just that by firearm - you would at least be able to try and justify making such a change. As it stands, we have only myriad correlations with minimal control for other factors and even then, there's not much to be shown for domestic violence, categorical improvement - just a shift in implement.
With that justification in place, you're still obligated to cover the road to restoration of rights in order to ensure anyone wrongfully impacted is made whole with no burden on their part.
If you want to argue for some Trumpian "take the firearms first" nonsense, don't be surprised when such measures are so strongly criticized and pushed back upon.
Except it really isn't, hence the entire issue.
Have you ever been in fear for your life and had to obtain a protective order? They are not easy to obtain.
Except where they were as shown by reference.