this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
1094 points (86.4% liked)
Memes
45734 readers
406 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
My wife and I own two cars and live outside the most urban parts of our city. I actually love cars, especially when I get to drive a standard transmission. But we both are firmly in the FuckCars camp.
We walk, bike, and use public transit when we can, and we vote to improve the pedestrian infrastructure in our area whenever we can. We love vacationing in places with good public transit, and would live in such places if circumstances allowed.
Part of the frustration in the FuckCars community is the very thing you said in your post. Cities are built around cars, which means every other form of commuting is secondary and therefore worse than it could be. This is what we want to change. Build cities around people. Get rid of massive parking lots, dangerous stroads, etc. If people need cars to get from city to city, or outside of cities, totally fine. But they shouldnât be necessary for day-to-day in populated areas.
Cities could be so much better, and we know this because there ARE cities that are better. It just takes effort and time.
And eminent domain, to take the land to build that infrastructure. And money. Lots and lots of money. And way more time than you think. Effectively having to level homes for miles, grade the surface and then, finally getting to build this utopian vision of public transportation, which will then need to be fed, sorry, maintained, by taxes that will shoot through the roof. Then, the displaced will need a place to stay, so enter yet more eminent domain to take more property to build vertical, because there is a finite amount of land. And this would be jn just one small to mid sized US city.
Look, I'm happy for anyone who's happy in how they do their daily. You chose it, and it works for you. Some people don't chose that life, and it doesn't work for them. I respect your way of life, it should only be fair that you respect mine. I'm not driving a 3500 turbo diesel that gets 12 gallons to the mile, stomping on the gas "just because I like the sound" and throwing cheeseburger wrappers out the window.
Difference is, I'm not trying to force my way of life on others...
Infinite money if we want to do it immediately. Donât be so defeatist. Changing hearts, minds, and infrastructure is not immediate.
There are plenty of good solutions. Just because youâre only hearing the very valid complaints doesnât mean solutions donât exist. They just arenât going to be easy or immediate. Life doesnât work that way.
Cars are indeed here to stay. But we can make cities much better over time.
I believe I did mention cars as valuable for use outside of cities. I live in the US, cars are an absolute necessity outside of major population centers.
Even so, cities are better when cars are unnecessary within them. CAPABLE, but unnecessary.
Yup, Iâve been there. The story is the same with Paris and NYC. I still prefer those cities over, say, Los Angeles. Cities that have made an effort to be livable without cars are better than cities that havenât.
Thereâs a city near me (so-called, but realistically a subset of the greater metro area) which has made changes to attempt to slow down cars. Curvier roads, curbs that cut out the shoulder near intersections (which still allow for parking but make the road seem narrower, psychologically, so people subconsciously slow down), strict enforcement of speed limits, cutting four-lane roads down to two-lane with a turn lane between them and bike lanes on the sides, etc.
Arguably these changes make it âdeliberately annoying to drive in,â but this area is still perfectly drivable, and is still often the fastest way to get from one place to another if theyâre nearby. And yet it has made that area much more pedestrian and bike friendly. I am far more likely to see people on foot there than in other parts of the city (barring the downtown area, which is of course most densely populated and therefore full of people).
It also makes it a delight to bike through.
This is the kind of change I want to see. I want cars to share the road. (To this end, I donât hesitate to bike in the road. If people are annoyed because I top out around 28mph with my eBike, then they should vote for more bike lanes. đ) I donât want cities to be places where cars are the primary mode of transit and the others are afterthoughts, I want cars to be one of many viable options. I want to see parking lots reduced in favor of housing and businesses, and centralized parking garages emphasized.
As stated previously, these arenât going to be immediate changes. They will take time, but theyâre worth working toward for better and healthier cities (and a healthier planet).
You don't have to give up personal transportation to build public transportation. Are you high? And no, it does not take infinite money. How the fuck do you think that they're are cities who have already implemented decent public transportation got them? They certainly did not have infinite money.
Are you always this defeatist?