this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
292 points (94.0% liked)

politics

19135 readers
2053 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Most people are not asking to "ban guns." Most people are asking for restrictions that keep people safe, not least our school children, and a ban on military-style weapons like AR-15s. That's not unreasonable nor impossible.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Not impossible with any other Supreme Court, but this one is vastly different from the one that ruled during the Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004.

Since then, ruling after ruling, the court has re-enforced and expanded gun rights. It's going to get ugly when they hear the AWB and high capacity bans out of California.

Here's a primer on how things have changed, I'll need to save this because it will come up again:

D.C. Vs. Heller - 2008:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

"The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District's total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of "arms" that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition – in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute – would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional."

You can't ban an entire class of weapon, in this case handguns. But that would apply to ANY class, such as banning rifles, shotguns, and, yes, semi-automatic rifles.

McDonald vs. City of Chicago - 2010
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago

"the second amendment right recognized in Heller is fully applicable to the states through the due process clause of the fourteenth amendment. In so holding, the Court reiterated that "the Second Amendment protects the right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of self-defense" (id. at ___, 130 S. Ct. at 3026); that "individual self-defense is 'the central component' of the Second Amendment right"

Needed re-stating because D.C. is a unique legal entity and not a state. McDonald exists to say "Yes, states too."

Caetano v. Massachusetts - 2016
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caetano_v._Massachusetts

This is actually my favorite one of these because it goes in an unusual direction. Woman was being threatened by an abusive ex and bought a taser for protection.

MA charged her saying that tasers didn't exist at the time of the 2nd amendment, so she had no right to own one.

Enter the court:

"the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding" and that "the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States".[6] The term "bearable arms" was defined in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) and includes any ""[w]eapo[n] of offence" or "thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands," that is "carr[ied] . . . for the purpose of offensive or defensive action." 554 U. S., at 581, 584 (internal quotation marks omitted)."[10]

Anything you take into your hands for defense is allowed under the 2nd amendment. So, no, you don't have the right to a cruise missile or a tactical nuke, but if you can carry it, it's yours.

New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen - 2022
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Rifle_%26_Pistol_Association,_Inc._v._Bruen

This is the recent ruling that has everyone in a tizzy. First, because for concealed carry, it converted New York from a "may issue" state to a "shall issue" state:

"The constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense is not 'a second-class right, subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees.' We know of no other constitutional right that an individual may exercise only after demonstrating to government officers some special need."[26]

And second, it sets a new standard by which all gun laws will now be measured:

"When the Second Amendment's plain text covers an individual's conduct [here the right to bear arms], the Constitution presumptively protects that conduct. The government must then justify its regulation by demonstrating that it is consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation. Only then may a court conclude that the individual's conduct falls outside the Second Amendment's "'unqualified command.'"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Sure, so go vote for people who want reasonable restrictions. The SC will eventually follow. It's not impossible, but people have to remember to go vote on election day. Even when it seems impossible.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Huh. I remember some laws in my state about knuckledusters and switchblades changing around 2017. Do you think courts would apply the logic from Caetano v Massachusetts to some of the oft-prohibited items, like 'clubs' and such?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Good question, no clue.

[–] LarryTheMatador 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Those fall under "destructive devices", and with the exception of grenades aren't "bearable" arms as defined by the court.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No no, you see, we can't do that because of -insert bullshit here-

they'll argue their critics don't understand firearms, or the difference between semi and full auto, or that AR describes armalite rifle not assault rifle... because they have no response to the actual issue - we're a country of 330 million that possesses 400 million + firearms. Too many people with ready access to firearms is the problem, but they can't address that so they'll change the subject to apocrypha.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, banning military-style guns is a ban though.

Realistically we need regulation on who can own guns, not what guns they can own.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s semantics. Banning specific people from owning guns is still a ban by your same logic?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We already ban people from using guns. Felons, drug users, spousal abusers, etc. That's all part and parcel of filling out the purchase form.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fucking bullshit that holding a medical card prevents me legally owning a firearm but Cletus next door owns an arsenal and HAS TO DRINK TO STAY ALIVE BECAUSE HES AN ENDSTAGE ALCOHOLIC WETBRAIN WITH NO IMPULSE CONTROL.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's going to be interesting to see the lawyers challenge that for Hunter Biden's coke habit.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/09/hunter-biden-second-amendment-legal-defense.html

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I think equating cocaine and cannabis is pretty silly. Regardless, people of perfectly sound mind and judgment use recreational drugs, of which alcohol is one. My point is that what I choose to ingest shouldn't disqualify me from a right the rest of the "drug free" community does not. The status of my mental health is what should disqualify me.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you want a real, actually solution, then you must go all the way.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In your eyes, what makes the AR-15 more dangerous than a Glock 19 handgun? They are both semi-auto in functionality. In fact, most handguns are semi-auto, along with quite a few shotguns. Both can have a magazine loaded with 30 rounds. The AR is a civilian produced weapon that the military sought to use with multiple modifications. The AR does not have these modifications.

You say no one wants to ban guns but then your very next sentence states banning a model of gun. If you can factually answer what makes it more dangerous, I just might agree with you.

[–] LarryTheMatador 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah, you could have just said you have no idea what you're talking about. Step one, realize that the rifle the military uses and the rifle you're so scared of are not the same. They look very similar, so I can see why you would think so. You want to talk disingenuous, why don't you have any rebuttal to the things I mentioned but instead want to go on to your own diatribe? Come back with something intelligent and then we'll talk.