this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
150 points (79.8% liked)
Asklemmy
43992 readers
935 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Consciousness fits most definitions of supernatural and it's a profoundly human mistake to try to externalize it.
No. In fact it quite strongly fits within the definiton of natural as we can plainly see it in our natural world and be affected by natural processes.
The only thing i can't wrap my head around is how did a bunch of random inanimate materials manage to coalesce in such a way that eventually led to complex organisms that have a consciousness. Doesn't mean I believe in god because there's no evidence but it's a very WTF thing to me that I don't like thinking about too hard.
Those are two things; evolution and abiogenesis. We have evolution well sorted, to the point where our entire understanding and implementation of biological science depends on it.
Abiogenesis is not as well fleshed out, but we are miles ahead on it now than we were even 20 years ago. Do we have a strict, proven explanation and timeline? No, not yet. Do we have nothing? Not even close. Is it worth throwing our hands up and going "I don't know, therefore god"? I don't think so.
I think you'll find that most believers of intelligent design and a God being don't think about it too hard. Obviously there are plenty of apologists in the world whos job it is to discuss and debate this stuff, but they are the faaaaar minority and most have a financial stake in the matter.
For evolution take a look at Gutsick Gibbon on youtube and for abiogensis look up Forrest Valkai. They're both incredible educators.
Abiogenesis is the part that stresses me out. It doesn't make me believe in God though. Sorry if my comment came across that way. I'm just not smart enough or there's not enough information available when I tried reading about it last time.
If consciousness was supernatural (above or outside the natural world) then brain damage would not affect consciousness.
This is not what we observe. Personalities drastically change due to strokes or dementia, with a common descriptor being that their loved ones "don't recognize" them or that they "aren't the same person". The classic example of personality change is Phineas Gage, who became extremely hostile and impulsive after suffering severe brain damage.
You're doing a great job of consciously rationalizing this.
There's no rationalization necessary. In my profession (neurology professor) I encounter this type of situation on a regular basis.