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Fifa suspends Luis Rubiales from all football-related activity over Hermoso kiss
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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Isn't that going a little far? Not defending the guy, it's gross and super inappropriate. But a simple kiss is hardly sexual. Basically every child ever is kissed against their will by older relatives and nobody bats an eye.
Fire the guy, ban him from football for life, but does he need to be arrested? He's not going around groping strangers. He just apparently does gross, stupid shit when he's excited.
Nope. It's not going too far. You go ahead and randomly kiss a coworker or subordinate at your place of work in front of everybody to include customers. Let me know how quickly HR wants you in their office.
Yeah, because it's assault. Not sexual.
How dense are you people
Restraining someone else's head with both hands and kissing on the lips without consent - an action that not only disrespects physical boundaries, but also psychological and neurochemical boundaries, sounds a lot like sexual assault to me.
If it was the player's cheek or hand, then IMO your argument would make much more sense. This isn't the case here, and sexual assault includes a lot more than forced penetration.
As far as the law is concerned, it's sufficiently open ended AFAICT and leaves the definition up to the individual affected.
https://eige.europa.eu/gender-based-violence/regulatory-and-legal-framework/legal-definitions-in-the-eu/spain-sexual-assault-excl-rape?language_content_entity=en
How is it not sexual if a grown man kisses a grown woman and they are not in any way related?
Yeah, never once have my French friends grabbed me by the head by both hands and kissed me full on the lips as a greeting.
Do you know what consent is?
Consent - When two parties agree that an action is OK to preform.
In the case of the French, the consent to kiss others comes from their culture / societal norms that make kissing as a greeting ok. The same cannot be said about Spain and especially the situation they were in.
"Certain people in France do this too, so this should be universally accepted behaviour. I am really smart"
Well, let's see how exactly it is that you feel when a man in a position of authority over you grabs you by the head and kisses you against your will. And I will have you know that neither of my children have ever been made to accept affection that they did not want because I learned from my upbringing, I didn't just parrot it.
I was a Catholic altar boy. I assure you, I know the feeling.
Again, it's gross and inappropriate, not sexual assault.
Except is exactly fits the legal definition of sexual assault.
For what jurisdiction? There's not one legal definition. Every country, and every state in the US, has their own definitions.
My state, for example, defines it as (paraphrasing) unwanted contact with intimate areas for the purpose of sexual gratification or humiliation, or to intentionally harm. It's a bit subjective and open to interpretation, but there's no way anyone would get convicted under this statute for a short, closed-mouth celebratory kiss.
Again, it's assault, and it's gross and inappropriate, but it doesn't meet all the elements of sexual assault.
Then your state has shitty laws. It's sexual assault everywhere normal.
Why are you bringing up the US? This happened in Spain so that's the only jurisdiction that matters
And guess what the Spanish criminal codes definition of sexual assault is? Unwanted sexual contact.
A kiss is not inherently sexual. Wtf do you people not understand.
Nice deflection attempt but nah.
U need to learn about consent bro.
No, you need better reading comprehension.
Unwanted contact = assault
Unwanted sexual contact = sexual assault
A kiss is not inherently sexual, therefore an unwanted kiss is assault, not sexual assault. Inappropriate and gross isn't automatically sexual.
You are rule-smithing for absolute degens. Just stop touching people dude
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault
The only person I ever kiss with both hands on their head is my wife, when I am being intimate with her.
Did you skip over this?
A kiss is not inherently sexual. Is a mother's kiss incest? I have a picture of my nephews kissing, is that CP? Hell, dudes in some parts of the world kiss their friends, on the lips, as a greeting.
Gross and inappropriate conduct isn't automatically sexual.
Stop the cap, mate. It wasn't a mother kissing their child or a friend kissing another friend. It was a grown fucking man, kissing a grown fucking woman. They obviously aren't friends or lovers. Ofc it's sexual, doesn't matter if 'not all kisses are inherently sexual, this one was.
Did you miss the part where he's never kissed a man like that? His country has had lots of men being presented with great accomplishments. He has awarded those men those awards without ever kissing them like he does here
For one, the Spanish jurisdiction, that is the one that applies to this case. Arguing that other countries have backwards laws is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Right, show me where the Spanish criminal code explicitly defines a kiss as sexual contact.
Go ask that question to the prosecutors
https://elpais.com/deportes/futbol/2023-08-28/la-fiscalia-abre-diligencias-contra-rubiales-por-un-posible-delito-de-agresion-sexual.html
Yes it is.
It is not up to you to decide. The Spanish law is pretty clear in this respect, and a non-consensual kiss is explicitly defined as sexual assault, period. And this is a very recent law that has been widely discussed and reported in media, so there is no chance that he didn't know the legal consequences of his acts. He simply believed that his position of power would be enough to evade the legal consequences.
Please show me where Spanish criminal code defines what constitutes a kiss.
The law doesn't even define sexual assault beyond "unwanted sexual conduct". And again, a kiss is not inherently sexual.
Calling this sexual assault doesn't help anyone, and actively harms victims of actual sexual violence.
You should join Luis Rubiales' defense 🤷♂️
How so? This kind of argument doesn't make sense to me - robbing a house is robbery, robbing a bank is still robbery. Unaliving an individual with a knife is murder, and unaliving an invididual by dangerous driving is still murder.
Each crime is looked at on a case by case basis in an ideal scenario - having the definition of one thing the same as another can not inherently harm victims affected by a higher severity of an identically named crime IMO
I'll take the bait because why not 🤭
Sexual assault is not just rape, that kind of thinking is really narrow minded in my opinion. The definition varies depending on where you live - this can include groping, slapping another's bottom, ogling, catcalling, rape, and more.
Being excited isn't a valid reason to cross someone's personal boundaries IMO. There is never a valid reason to cross someone's boundaries unless you're exempt, on those kind of friendly terms with them
I actually don't let anybody kiss my kids without permission, even relatives. Your body belongs to you alone and you don't owe anyone a kiss. It shouldn't be normal IMO.
My three year old niece is in her choice phase. Every time I’ve seen her in the last six months, I ask for a hug and she smiles and says “noooooo!” Then rushes to give my wife a hug. I just let it go because she’s said no and that means no. Then usually later in the day she’ll pop around and give me a huge hug then. I’m hoping that means she learns that no means no, so when a boy later on tries to make it a “yes” she’ll make him understand it really does mean no.
He did not only kiss her - he also made remarks that he was gonna marry her next year in Ibiza and if I remember right something about a wedding night....
It was a sexual assault.
And btw: Kids should never be kissed against their will and it is not okay when older relatives do that. AT ALL
This happened in my country and would be absolutely considered sexual assault by state laws. So whatever your feelings are on the matter, the fact of reality is that it's sexual assault.
That is also assault, and the attitude that it's ok because the victims are too young to understand bodily autonomy is disgusting regardless of how widespread it is.
Did I say it was ok? That's gross and inappropriate in my opinion, too. But it still happens and nobody cares. And yeah, it could be considered assault. But it's not sexual.
I bat an eye. I think it's creepy as fuck when adults don't respect children's personal space
As you might reasonably have guessed, there is a long and sleazy history with Rubiales and Vilda. This is not blowing up out of nowhere.