Drama in the Fediverse
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undefined> The key concern is the normalization of such behaviors, which can perpetuate and potentially endorse harmful desires
This is the same exact argument that violent video games "normalizes" violence. It was wrong then and it's wrong here.
Absolutely, people do not commit major crimes just because they saw them on TV or read it in the newspapers. They do it because they want to.
I don't know if I agree with that. Porn I watched has definitely affected what I want in real life. Even if its a fantasy world, its definitely made me think "huh this might be hot in real life". Thankfully its nothing harmful but nonetheless. I can definitely see how the abundance of certain porn enforces the thought that a certain fetish is common, normal.
That's pretty different from wanting to fuck kids. Wanting to try an activity is pretty different from changing who you're attracted to. Unless you think gay porn's existence will make people gay.
Stop comparing video games to very real sexual gratification you fucking nonce.
Why not? The comparison is identical.
People are into things in fantasy that they're not into in reality. And not everyone who defends victimless activities are into them. I'm not into loli, but it's fucking fantasy. People fantasize about being raped, that's a huge fantasy. But that doesn't mean they want to be raped. And most "loli" anime shit look absolutely nothing like real children. If you want to talk about photo-realistic AI generated porn, ok fine. But seriously, what's wrong with a "3000 year old dragon" in the body of a child? Can they consent? That's all that really matters here, consent.
No it's not, and you fucking nonces need to stop saying that getting sexual satisfaction from underage representation is the same as playing video games constantly, it's a bad fucking look.
Just because you enjoy one and don't enjoy the other doesn't mean they're not the same. It's concerning that you have a hard time distinguishing reality from drawings, and then try to accuse people who are saying that there's simply no victim here of being pedophiles when no one is even talking about any living person, let alone a child, is pretty telling.
The "reality" is that a paedophile is getting very real sexual gratification from these images, and indulging nonces is fucked up. If you can't differentiate that from video games, you're the one with the fucking issue.
undefined> The “reality” is that a paedophile is getting very real sexual gratification from these images, and indulging nonces is fucked up.
What? So anything a pedophile enjoys should be banned? Pedophiles probably enjoy violent games too. And I'm sure murders certainly do. What's your point? I'm perfectly fine with anyone getting sexual gratification over any drawing. Who does it hurt?
Holy fuck, indulging their fucked up sexual desires. Are you being intentionally obtuse, or are you really that dumb? Stop trying to defend fucking paedophiles.
You're making really specific distinctions just so that what you enjoy isn't covered by your outrage. If we're talking about pedophiles specifically, their fucked up sexual desire is wrong because their victims can't consent. If they could consent, there wouldn't be a problem. Now, if they instead want to jerk off to fictional depictions (however realistic or not) of children, why is that bad? No one is hurt, they get to get off, and a potential victim is spared. So unclutch your pearls.
lmao, fucking nonce defenders. They should be getting help to either stop jacking off to that shit, or get chemically fucking castrated so they don't have those desires any more. Fuck off with your paedo indulging.
undefined> They should be getting help to either stop jacking off to that shit
Clearly you don't know shit. Just telling people not to jack off. Wtf.
Also not really how it works.
It's pretty sad that you'd rather see children be abused just for your own righteousness drawings. I think you're the one that needs help here.
lmao fuck off nonce defender.
I feel like people minimize video game violence as if it is any less bad then getting off on a drawing. People minimize the violence in games where we glorify killing people and don't talk about the repercussions of war and the violence - real war with refugees and results of total annihilation like Syria.
War is no joke, violence is no joke, and killing people is just as bad as pedophilia - REAL pedophilia. But just like shooting someone in the head in a video game or burning a village down in a video game doesn't translate to someone in real life wanting to hurt other people, looking at drawings does not mean someone is going to act out on the drawings they see. Fantasies do not equate to hurting others. There are plenty of people out there who have rape fantasies, they may write about it, they may roleplay with their partner, but that does not mean they WANT to be raped or assaulted in real life and it gives no one a license to do that to them against their will. Fantasies are fantasies, that is all they are, and the few sick fucks who act on their fantasies are 100% different from the people who never do.
The sexualization of minors, even in fictional contexts like ‘loli’ content, is where I believe we cross a moral line. Children are a vulnerable and protected group in our society, and any content that even implicitly sexualizes them can contribute to an environment that trivializes or normalizes such exploitation. It’s about maintaining the inviolability and innocence of childhood, a value deeply ingrained in our society.
Explain how. What does this "normalization" look like? What examples are there?
Yet we're totally fine showing violence to children? Even violence perpetrated on children, as long as it's not sexual? Is this also why you don't support sex ed for children?
I just find it really weird that you can't distinguish fantasy from reality.
I get where you’re coming from with the video games comparison, but we’re talking apples and oranges here. The two just aren’t the same. Violent video games, sure, they’re a problem, and I’m not a fan of those either, especially when kids are involved. But this loli content? That’s another level for me.
We’re dealing with stuff that inherently sexualizes minors, albeit in a fictional realm. When something like this becomes just ‘another thing’, a part of everyday life, people may start shrugging off the real-life equivalent too. And that’s what worries me.
Sex education, by the way, isn’t even in the same ballpark. It’s about teaching kids the facts of life, about relationships, about consent. It’s about protection, not exploitation.
As for telling reality from fantasy, most people, sure, they can do that. For me, the line’s pretty clear. Anything that makes it okay to sexualize kids, real or not, that’s a step too far.
undefined> but we’re talking apples and oranges here. The two just aren’t the same.
They're by definition not the same because they're different things, but I don't see why the argument is different.
Why are they a problem?
Is there even 1 shred of evidence that this has happened or is even about to happen?
I’ve come across some studies on this stuff. One study I found actually found a connection between violent video games and aggressive behavior in teenagers. Now, it wasn’t a massive correlation, but it’s something worth keeping an eye on (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/1850198).
As for evidence of normalization, it’s tricky. The concept of normalization doesn’t necessarily imply a direct cause-effect relationship, like ‘X’ content led to ‘Y’ real-world behavior. It’s more about subtle shifts in societal attitudes over time. It’s challenging to directly measure these shifts, but there are sociological studies that suggest media consumption can influence perceptions and attitudes.(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/22223200_Living_With_Television_The_Violence_Profile)
So, my concerns about Loli aren’t pulled out of thin air. It’s about the potential shift in our societal attitudes towards child exploitation. It’s not easy to put hard numbers on these effects, but given what we know about the impact of media, I think we should avoid it.
undefined> It’s more about subtle shifts in societal attitudes over time.
Has there been any evidence whatsoever that society has gotten more permissive with regard to being sexually active with actual children?
But you just described how there's no evidence.
Lol what? That's not how any of this works. We should only be banning things that we can actually say are harmful.
Keep moving the goal post.