this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
341 points (91.3% liked)
Confidently Incorrect
3934 readers
2 users here now
When people are way too smug about their wrong answer.
Posting guidelines.
All posts in this community have come from elsewhere, it is not original content, the poster in this community is not OP. The person who posts in this community isn’t necessarily endorsing whatever the post is talking about and they are not looking to argue with you about the content in the post.
You are welcome to discuss and debate any topic but arguments are not welcome here. I consider debate/discussions to be civil; people with different opinions participating in respectful conversations. It becomes an argument as soon as someone becomes aggressive, nasty, insulting or just plain unpleasant. Report argumentative comments, then ignore them.
There is currently no rule about how recent a post needs to be because the community is about the comeback part, not the topic.
Rules:
• Be civil and remember the human.
• No trolling, insults or name calling. Swearing in general is fine, but not to insult someone.
• No bigotry of any kind, including homophobia, transphobia, sexism and racism.
• You are welcome to discuss and debate any topic but arguments are not welcome here. I consider debate/discussions to be civil; people with different opinions participating in respectful conversations. It becomes an argument as soon as someone becomes aggressive, nasty, insulting or just plain unpleasant. Report argumentative comments, then ignore them.
• Try not to get too political. A lot of these posts will involve politics, but this isn’t the place for political arguments.
• Participate in good faith - don’t be aggressive and don’t argue for arguements sake.
• Mark NSFW posts if they contain nudity.
• Satire is allowed but please start the post title with [satire] so other users can filter it out if they’d like.
Please report comments that break site or community rules to the mods. If you break the rules you’ll receive one warning before being banned from this community.
This community follows the rules of the lemmy.world instance and the lemmy.org code of conduct. I’ve summarised them here:
- Be civil, remember the human.
- No insulting or harassing other members. That includes name calling.
- Respect differences of opinion. Civil discussion/debate is fine, arguing is not. Criticise ideas, not people.
- Keep unrequested/unstructured critique to a minimum.
- Remember we have all chosen to be here voluntarily. Respect the spent time and effort people have spent creating posts in order to share something they find amusing with you.
- Swearing in general is fine, swearing to insult another commenter isn’t.
- No racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia or any other type of bigotry.
- No incitement of violence or promotion of violent ideologies.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Thank you for not calling us LatinX, I've yet to meet a Latino who doesn't hate that.
I’ve never understood LatinX. Is it supposed to be a gender neural Latino/Latina? I’m only a Spanish beginner but I’m fairly sure Latino can be masculine and gender neutral.
"LatinX" was indeed the first attempt at a gender neutral description. "Latino" is still considered by many native speakers to be "neutral", but the most feasible solution I've seen popping up is the "latine" (as in "estudiante", "vigilante", etc). Since it uses an explicitly non-gendered suffix, it is more correctly inclusive than the "latino". It will take a while though, und until it is really widely adopted.
So like, is there any sizeable Latin community actually calling for a gender neutral term or is this just a middle-class white people thing? Because as a white person I've never seen anyone push for this other than white people and it just seems like a white savior/ daddy knows best thing. But my experience is just my experience
There are some people who identify as Latinx. Pew puts it at 2-3% of Latin Americans, usually those who are non-binary.
I think the reason that it has the astroturfed white middle class vibe is that it’s really been pushed by corporate culture for whatever reason, who use it as catch all for all Latin Americans which clearly doesn’t line up with how the majority self-identify.
My experience is also your experience.
I am trans and Latina and it is totally a thing. We have queer people too, we come in all the normal colors and a few weird ones too.
That is what I myself thought on the first place, but it's more of a "global" movement. It's not just "white people", but rather also native Spanish speakers learning nuances of other languages, plus Gender Studies research, etc.
Do you know any queer/non binary Latinos?
There is John Leguizamo, though it definitely feels like he's trying to manage his waning popularity as a c-lister.
I never liked him much until he guest hosted the Daily Show earlier this year. He was terrific.
I swear I replied to this and then both my reply and your comment disappeared 🤷🏼♀️
Thank you for the explanation. Is “le” as an indirect object pronoun the same kind of gender neutral example? I’m really struggling with that atm. Every noun is going to be gendered except him and her?! I suck at languages.
Well, I'm no expert. I just enjoy learning languages and am a native Spanish speaker myself. With regards to the grammar I'm quit lost in my own language, but I can tell you this:
I hope I could answer your question properly, but of not, feel free to elaborate.
Thanks for that! I’ve been learning Spanish for about a year now, but on my own and I don’t know anyone who speaks it. I’m very much still a beginner. I learnt French at school so the idea of gendered nouns wasn’t so much of a problem, but for someone reason indirect object pronouns (I also had no idea what this meant in my native tongue!) have been tripping me up.
“Me gusta mucha esta falda, pero le no quiero comprar” for example. I don’t understand why I’m using “le” when the “it” I’m talking about is feminine.
Or if I want to say “I’ll ask her for her number” it’s “le pediré su numero” (I think, I’m not sure I’ve got the verb form for pedir correct). But what if a boy and girl are standing next to each other, how do you know I’m talking about her if le is gender neutral?
And then sometimes duolingo tells me it’s “la” and I have no idea why! Duo isn’t great for learning more than the basics imo though. I’m sure it will become more natural/easier/I’ll stop over thinking it eventually. It seems like such a silly thing to get caught on, but here I am!
I’ve spoken about this in a learn Spanish sub and someone recommended a book called “English grammar for students of Spanish” or something similar and it’s SO helpful, because no one has ever taught me what an “indirect object pronoun” is in English so it made it really difficult to even describe what I didn’t understand, if that makes sense? Clearly I need to read some more of that book!
Well, a couple things to correct: "me gusta esta falda, pero no la quiero comprar" (la falda, therefore feminine "la", so you were correct in your assumption :))
"Le pediré su número", is more roughly transated to "I'll ask for their number", which like in English might shine some light on how you could be more specific, by providing extra information about the indirect object in question in your sentence to remove uncertainty: "Le pediré su número a él/a ella" (in your two cases)
Like I said, I'm no good when it comes to grammar, but I can tell you, that there are just so many languages, and many have features that others just don't (like Russian has no article (definite or indefinite), Arabic has verbs that depend on the gender of the speaker, etc). With Spanish I just know that the biggest hurdles are the past tense, and the gerundive, but I can't really point you to a good resource other than a book I kind of saw a while back: Pons. I read the "german version" (I think) for learning Spanish (I was tutoring at the time), and it was quite informative but dense. Maybe there's something for you there as well.
If someone knows a YouTube video or something about this, I'd be interested.
I don't know about videos, but here is an article
We already have "Latin", which has been in common use for generations.
Not to mention who gives a shit about gendered language. It's a non issue.
Anyone who teaches at a university should be banned from trying to come up with new words, they're invariably so removed from real life they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Ivory tower bullshit.
I don't know where you come from or what languages (apart from English) you might speak, but:
Hope that makes it clearer.
It was first seen in online queer activist circles around 2004. You can read a little about it here. Latino is traditionally masc/neutral but English style guides also said the same about “he” when referring to someone of unknown or unspecified gender for a long time, which has largely fallen out of use for singular “they” now.
Personally, I don’t use Latinx in writing to refer to all Latinos/Latinas as polling has shown only 2-3% of people readily identify with it. But I do think you absolutely should use it if that’s how someone personally identifies.
Am I the only one who reads LatinX as rhyming with larynx?
I read it as a Latino fetish porn site.
I read it like latinks
Yeah
For some reason people get violently ill when they see someone use pronouns on the internet, so they came up with an alternative words so that their ideas match up with reality.